I am just telling you that Climate Change is not a theory it is a reality, now are humans responsible for it? i am not sure if we could call it a theory, i mean how would you test it? The only way seems to look down into the earth and residues it might have that indicate anything.... and when we do that we see that it has been happening for a very long times.. way before the human species came to be.

So are Humans causing this "sudden" climate change? I dont know sounds more reasonable to Attribute it to astrological movements.

And who benefits if we apply policies that make energy more expensive, and put restrictions on energy we know is abundant(even if it has a limit).

I am gonna tell you something.... climate is not the most affected by These policies, it is developing countries that are the ones most affected by climate policies that choke their development.

I'm no geologists, but the guys I knew worked in drilling and excavation, so they were continuously factoring in data regarding changes to water tables, flood risks, contamination, pollution, tidal changes, etc... The two fields feed into each other.

It's not about apportioning fault and blame. Hindsight is 20/20, but we need to move forward. It's about recognising the contributrary factors and taking control of those that you can. With that, comes a high degree of responsibility and accountability.
Or they can seize the opportunity to move forward with new, clean energy sources.

OMG, you might be on to something

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/03/29/...0-second-clip/

An earlier post was deleted by a moderator with the comment 'it is all about Trump'. My post was clearly about Trump's total denial of climate change and his recent actions. My comments about Swiss Glaciers at the turn of the 20C and now- was an illustration that climate change denial is a dangerous con.

Ok - there seems to be a problem with overcensoring, which I have never been a big fan of. Posts restored - guys, pls, stick to Trump, nonetheless.

Sean Spicer is monitoring the thread for any awkward truths...

I agree with members who consider all these issues related to Trump, Odile. Hence me restoring the posts.

So Trump gets criticized left and right for stance in climate policies, i attempt to explain why the criticism Trump gets in this topic is demagogery... and try to make my point on how it is just politically motivated... and i get my post deleted.....


P.S. Odile you were just collateral damage, after being pressured by participants of this thread a moderator finally decided to go after me...


You guys Need an unholy trinity movement getting up in here, or you will end up with a stagnant, monocultural, and boring community.

Nyah, don't feel bad for yourself. Healthy debate needs oposing views. We all mod differently, I think it is not a bad thing.

Let's get back to US politics.

And pictures from 100 years earlier show them even larger and longer, so it's hardly something new.

I'll bet Trump has bought half of Canada and Siberia!

Global warming - a great idea whose time has come!

Tom

And the climate is a yoyo. There have been times in the history of the planet that the icecaps were completely gone. There were also times that they reached down into central Europe. Trump was only inuagurated in January of this year, so I don't quite see how it's his fault.

Regardless of whatever anyone thinks of climate change or ice caps melting or polar bears dwindling or whatever it is, you have to be blind, stupid or both not to notice the number of people living in filthy air and drinking from polluted water supplies.

If Trump doesn't believe in the science behind the climate being damaged, he could at least work with trying to develop greener industry and agriculture protocols which would alleviate great swathes of the global population choking up their lungs with crap.

That doesn't even need a scientist to make a case. He just needs to spend a near a coal burning power station and look at the black stuff he blows out of his nose into a handkerchief.

Indeed, sadly the Clean Air discussion keeps getting mixed up with the Climate Change one.

Whatever one thinks about Climate Change it is important to have clean air and to avoid pollutants.

How would you define clean air? Safe to breath? Nice to smell?
It certainly contributes to a better Quality of life... but you know what is even better than posh air? Going from 3 hours of electricity a day to 4 hours of electricity a day, i mean that DOES make a huge difference.... imagine the difference for the public Hospitals or even in the industry!

I am sorry, but somethings have priority over other. I lived for over 20 years with "dirty air" and i am telling you right now that 3 hours of electricity a day is total bullsht! Or having public transportation fees going up everyday because people buy tons of diesel for their Generators... is also bullsht.

I am more concerned about the reality, not about what politicians say, just for a second try to put yourselves in the shoes of others.

Exactly. Two separate issues. Clean air and clean water are important, but the connection to climate change is tenuous.

Many pollutants are local issues. Carcinogens from traffic and industries for example. Cr@p being sprayed on crops for example. Many of them can be tackled by local ordnances. And I'm all for that. But every city or region should decide for itself how clean it wants its air to be. Tolerance levels are going to be different in a dense city than they are going to be out in the sticks. When you start forcing people, that's when things go wrong. Trying to tie thiis up with climate change is intellectually dishonest.

If you do not have clean air then you have a high risk of early death.

If you do not have electricity then you are simply uncomfortable.

What is clean air? Look here.

And what happens (sadly) when you leave these decisions is that powerful industrial lobbies lean on communities to relax standards and play one community off against another to try to drive standards down to their financial advantage.

There is no real alternative to having strong minimum national / transnational / preferably global standards.

You make a good argument for renewable energy

Clean Air=Vegan Air
No Electricity=Going dirty and smelly to work, risking Food poisoning from Food going bad, broken toes from kicking sharp edges in the darkness.

Sorry, give me the trash air and 4 hours a day of electricity any day of the week, specially in the weekends because i am guaranteed to be home during those 4 hours.
There is no greater thing than having electricity and water available, you have no idea pal.


@Pilatus1: We Need coal down there! Only World superpowers can afford to install those inefficient, polluting, and resource draining windmills.
If you want to know about renewable energy take a look at the "Stirling Generator". We should invest in the Stirling Generator because it does have real potentional, and is complicated enough to be able to make adjustments and adapt it to different scenarios.