Another Trump U turn or Trump just trolling?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...tirring-anthem

Dictator Kim has competition. Substitute "America" with "Trump" to make the video spot on.

That's the elitist attitude that made Trump the president!

This is a far more potent symbol of elitism than Clinton's throwaway comment about 'deplorables'

Especially considering the original word, integrity, was removed and replaced by the family name. It couldn't be more "anschaulich" (graphic?).

Oh please. Not that again.

People who voted for Trump.....

Are never getting coal/manufacturing jobs back
Have kids with student loans who may end up with crushing debt
Are looking at public education systems turned to shit
Will possibly loose their healthcare coverage
Might even find their illegal, but law abiding immigrant friends and relatives deported without any help

On and on and on.

Oh sure, I value education, and I lean left. But, the real elite in this mess are Trump, his friends, his cabinet, lobbyists, people like DeVos and Price, who want to basically create a wider gulf between the haves and the have nots.

And maybe this is elite, but if an average person voted for Trump, expecting that MAGA was going to help them, they were mislead and it was a stupid choice. Stupid. And that stupidity was fed by corporate media. That's my opinion from what I've observed. Don't agree? I don't give a rat's ass.

The problem is endemic....it's incompetence, selfishness, power grabbing by both sides. It's not Trump per se, but he is a symptom.

Surely that's an oxymoron?

Well, they might have come illegally or overstayed their visa, but kept themselves out of any other problem - thing that it is much more admirable and difficult than you want to admit. To be invisible means you expose yourself to greedy employers, lack of health or other type of insurance...and what not. You really are on your own...so yeah, some people are to be admired not necessarily kicked out.

It happens regardless of the semantic device.

There obviously are illegal immigrants who are to be admired, probably a lot of them are really decent folk too.

But if you allow them to stay it doesn't really send the right message. You should be discouraging people to enter the country illegally.

It's also not really fair to those people who did everything right to enter the country in a legal manner.

and furthermore its the beginning of a slippery slope.

If illegals who work without paying into disability insurance, AHV, pension etc are to be admired, it makes it a bit difficult to not admire indigineous people who chose to save some money using the same trick.

If the same laws don't apply for everybody, you rapidly descend into third world style lawlessness.

Well...[insert sarcasm here]

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An interesting piece from the Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/arc...s-down/527103/


Apparently arrests are up, but because those arrests are not at the borders, they require processing time. Guess some semblance of due process is a good thing. There are fewer people crossing the border, so this along with increased processing times means that deportations are down.

What's concerning a lot of people is the increase in arresting undocumented folks without a criminal record, and arresting people in courthouses.

Some of the people arrested have US spouses, family, jobs and even businesses. It would be nice if everyone came in legally and never overstayed their visa, but crap happens. The US really needs to establish an amnesty program. The immigration process itself is an inefficient nightmare. Went through it 15 years ago, and what I've heard from others suggests it's not improved much. At all.

Amnesty programs are what got countries like Belgium where they are.

If the easiest way to settle is to come in illegally and await an amnesty you are pushing people into illegality and losing control of the process.

I would legalise their situation, depending on each case of course. They don't pay contributions because they can't. Didn't Obama do something similar btw?

What then is the difference to legals who can't afford their contributions?

Have you been through US immigration? This is not a process under control. I have to disagree with you - a time limited amnesty program makes sense to me.

And by the way, this...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#789ef69b1de0

Suggests that 50% of undocumented households do pay taxes. So many are contributing, perhaps more than US citizens, and certainly more than Trump.

If amnesty were offered to the undocumented, might increase tax revenues.

Then fix it. Be tough if need be but be fair.

How can forcing people into illegaliity be fair?

Amnesties tend to be things that come back. If the authorities work out that giving amnesties is easier than doing their work properly, they will continue to do so. And if people work out this is the smoothest path through the system they will use it. Thus it becomes the de facto path.

Doesn't make it better in my view. Just shows how broken the system is.

If optimizing tax revenues takes precedence over maintaining the rule of law, your system is badly broken. This needs to be a wake up call, not an excuse for breaking it further.

Another reason for the Mexico-US permeable border that is often overlooked (on purpose?) is that these Mexicans are actually encouraged to come, even when that is done illegally. The jobs in agriculture are mainly done by Mexican families, so :

- the farms, construction, other fields need people
- the Mexicans know they are needed and wanted, and they are willing to sacrifice the adult generation so that the next one, or perhaps even the second generation, can have more opportunities.

What I mean by sacrifice is that these workers are usually paid peanuts for their work; they pay taxes on that income; and hardly withdraw monetary benefits directly. Indirectly, they do in form of education for their kids in public schools, which brings a host of issues to those schools (there is a doc about that as well), ER visits, etc.

There are more comprehensive documentaries - no time to dig for it but a quick search on youtube, and here is a short one outlining the issue:


Is this really creating a mess of the US? Who's to blame for it? Overall, when all said and done, does it hurt the US or helps it? Many questions, but the more important question to me is: "Who benefits from this maelstrom?", politically and economically. Did the previous waves of immigrants hurt or helped the US?

Generally speaking, immigration helps. It has always helped. Immigrants do lots of jobs that US citizens won't (e.g., all the agriculture stuff). And on average, immigrants are innovative, willing to learn, etc. But of course, not all are wonderful.

I think it's a convenient message to send to those people who feel let down, to say that too many immigrants take your jobs, clog up your ER, vote for too many Democrats. Uh, no.

Undocumented folks pick the fruit so you don't have to. Guess that's elitist too. Oh well......

And I hear people say "Well, my grandma came to the US legally, so should everyone else. " Yeah, like in 1920. Processes were different.