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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
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  #7821  
Old 11.07.2017, 11:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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and furthermore its the beginning of a slippery slope.

If illegals who work without paying into disability insurance, AHV, pension etc are to be admired, it makes it a bit difficult to not admire indigineous people who chose to save some money using the same trick.

If the same laws don't apply for everybody, you rapidly descend into third world style lawlessness.
Theoretically you are correct but practically deporting 11 million is not possible, the current deportation rate is lower than the birth rate
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  #7822  
Old 11.07.2017, 11:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Generally speaking, immigration helps. It has always helped. Immigrants do lots of jobs that US citizens won't (e.g., all the agriculture stuff). And on average, immigrants are innovative, willing to learn, etc. But of course, not all are wonderful.
Which is why there needs to be an orderly, transparent and fair system permitting people to come and do those jobs. As in there has to be a set of criteria and if you fulfil those, you can come and work. If you don't fulfil those you can't come. Period. No pandering or looking away or different rule sets for different people.

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I think it's a convenient message to send to those people who feel let down, to say that too many immigrants take your jobs, clog up your ER, vote for too many Democrats. Uh, no.
The proof of the pudding should be in the eating. If anybody feels their job is being taken away, they should be given an opportunity to come and do that job. Let them walk the talk.

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Undocumented folks pick the fruit so you don't have to. Guess that's elitist too. Oh well......
In Switzerland we have things like L permits for those jobs. I really cannot understand this "illegality is necessary" attitude.

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And I hear people say "Well, my grandma came to the US legally, so should everyone else. " Yeah, like in 1920. Processes were different.
Just because a system broke down somewhere along the road is not a reason not to seek to fix it.
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  #7823  
Old 11.07.2017, 12:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Theoretically you are correct but practically deporting 11 million is not possible, the current deportation rate is lower than the birth rate
You don't need to physically send the cops around to knock on every door.

Just make it clear that we are fixing the system and creating an orderly and fair and transparent system that permits people to come in and seek work without it taking forever or requiring unreasonable feats. If you chose to not you use that system, you are liable to sanctions if found out, as is your employer. I think many people who are illegal don't want to be illegal and they will use the system.
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  #7824  
Old 11.07.2017, 12:26
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You don't need to physically send the cops around to knock on every door.

Just make it clear that we are fixing the system and creating an orderly and fair and transparent system that permits people to come in and seek work without it taking forever or requiring unreasonable feats. If you chose to not you use that system, you are liable to sanctions if found out, as is your employer. I think many people who are illegal don't want to be illegal and they will use the system.
I agree with you. In principle. In practice, an orderly system will take work and negotiation. Given that the US govt seems to be unable to do much of anything in terms of laws, etc, The process of restructuring immigration looms large. It would be like collaborating with 50 Switzerlands (states/regions run their own programs with some programs run at the federal level. There are gray areas throughout, lots of things left to judgement. And, not sure how data systems are now, but it used to be that very little was centralized. So yeah, a fair program is a great idea. For now it's easier to raid and arrest. And in the name of fairness, that's why I believe in some form of time limited amnesty.
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  #7825  
Old 11.07.2017, 18:39
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?



Tom
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  #7826  
Old 11.07.2017, 18:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

would be great on a gril!
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  #7827  
Old 11.07.2017, 20:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Another reason for the Mexico-US permeable border that is often overlooked (on purpose?) is that these Mexicans are actually encouraged to come, even when that is done illegally. The jobs in agriculture are mainly done by Mexican families, so :

- the farms, construction, other fields need people
- the Mexicans know they are needed and wanted, and they are willing to sacrifice the adult generation so that the next one, or perhaps even the second generation, can have more opportunities.

What I mean by sacrifice is that these workers are usually paid peanuts for their work; they pay taxes on that income; and hardly withdraw monetary benefits directly. Indirectly, they do in form of education for their kids in public schools, which brings a host of issues to those schools (there is a doc about that as well), ER visits, etc.



Is this really creating a mess of the US? Who's to blame for it? Overall, when all said and done, does it hurt the US or helps it? Many questions, but the more important question to me is: "Who benefits from this maelstrom?", politically and economically. Did the previous waves of immigrants hurt or helped the US?
This is a really good point. Lots of undocumented workers come over via brokers. Are the brokers made to be accountable when discovered? And what happens when an undocumented family has a kid in the US? The kid is a US citizen.

agriculture and construction benefit the most by cheap labor. Demand for that is at least part of the equation.
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  #7828  
Old 11.07.2017, 20:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Tom
so crude
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  #7829  
Old 11.07.2017, 20:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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so crude
Hope it's sashimi, I wouldn't grill it.
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  #7830  
Old 11.07.2017, 21:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Tom
Something fishy is afoot here...
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  #7831  
Old 11.07.2017, 21:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You don't need to physically send the cops around to knock on every door.

Just make it clear that we are fixing the system and creating an orderly and fair and transparent system that permits people to come in and seek work without it taking forever or requiring unreasonable feats. If you chose to not you use that system, you are liable to sanctions if found out, as is your employer. I think many people who are illegal don't want to be illegal and they will use the system.
If you are talking about an amnesty then fair enough.
There is no legal process that will deal with 11 million people; there are just not enough people to enforce.
Despite Trump authorising a big increase in numbers of enforcers the reality is they have been unable to recruit enough people to even meet the pre-Trump allowed headcount.

There are already sanctions in place with a maximum penalty of $21,563 for hiring illegal immigrants.
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  #7832  
Old 11.07.2017, 22:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Donald Trump Jr. releases email chain on his Russian meeting.

One email, from publicist Rob Goldstone, claimed the information was part of "Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

"If it's what you say I love it," Trump Jr. replied, according to the email he released.

Source

One US newspaper is claiming this could be considered treason

Democrat Schiff says Trump Jr.'s Russia meeting 'violation of oath of citizenship'

Another US newspaper, more charitably, is claiming Donald Trump Jr. was dropped on his head as a child

Meanwhile the Republican led Senate has cut three weeks from the August recess/holiday so a vote on Healthcare in July is now very unlikely
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  #7833  
Old 12.07.2017, 08:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Some retards seem to have mistaken the right to freedom of speech with the right to have an audience.

President Trump sued for blocking people on Twitter
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  #7834  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Some retards seem to have mistaken the right to freedom of speech with the right to have an audience.

President Trump sued for blocking people on Twitter
Their argument is a bit more subtle than that, but nonetheless... yawn.
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  #7835  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Some retards seem to have mistaken the right to freedom of speech with the right to have an audience.

President Trump sued for blocking people on Twitter
And yet another set of "retards" would be clutching at pearls and having an aneurysm if Trump's Twitter account was taken down.

Potato-potarto.
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  #7836  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And yet another set of "retards" would be clutching at pearls and having an aneurysm if Trump's Twitter account was taken down.

Potato-potarto.
Perhaps you need a lesson on how Twitter works. Trump has 30 million Twitter followers. No one is forced to follow him. That is his audience. If his account was taken without him breaking the platform's rules or T&Cs, then that would an action against freedom of speech. HTH.
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  #7837  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And what happens when an undocumented family has a kid in the US? The kid is a US citizen.
Still, the illegal parent will get deported, tearing the family apart. I think Obama tried to have changed by Executive order but got blocked by the courts.
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  #7838  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Perhaps you need a lesson on how Twitter works. Trump has 30 million Twitter followers. No one is forced to follow him. That is his audience. If his account was taken without him breaking the platform's rules or T&Cs, then that would an action against freedom of speech. HTH.
Well, he is making official statements as the President from this account (he probably shouldn't be, but hey, he's a Maverick!) so blocking citizens who disagree with him from access to official presidential statements probably isn't constitutional, I suppose.
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  #7839  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Perhaps you need a lesson on how Twitter works. Trump has 30 million Twitter followers. No one is forced to follow him. That is his audience. If his account was taken without him breaking the platform's rules or T&Cs, then that would an action against freedom of speech. HTH.
Which rules from the T&Cs did the followers he blocked break?

By the way, how many of his 30 million followers are fake? Last count was approximately half.
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  #7840  
Old 12.07.2017, 09:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Which rules from the T&Cs did the followers he blocked break?
None, but Trump probably didn't want keep receiving abuse from them. Which is what the block button is for. Hence no right to an audience.

According to this half his users are fake. Doesn't change anything though.
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