Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 61 27.35%
No 162 72.65%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8501  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:52
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,929
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,950 Times in 5,626 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

What I don't understand is why everyone is equating the counter protest as "the left". Surely it is simply a case of the "far right" against "basically everybody else"?
Why is the expression "antifa" demonised so? Shouldn't it be the DEFAULT stance of just about every decent human being?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #8502  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:55
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Why is the expression "antifa" demonised so? Shouldn't it be the DEFAULT stance of just about every decent human being?
Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.
Reply With Quote
  #8503  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Gallen Kanton
Posts: 929
Groaned at 224 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 1,920 Times in 877 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.

Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far right beliefs as antifa and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
  #8504  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:01
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,929
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,950 Times in 5,626 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.
Well, I'm antifascist, or "antifa" as you like to call it. But I'm nowhere near far-left, more centre-right if anything. Being "antifa" is the moral and correct standpoint.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #8505  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:04
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far right beliefs as antifa and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them
As much as it may pain you to admit, sadly these days it's the left which is all about shutting down opposing viewpoints and the right is more about free speech for all.
Reply With Quote
  #8506  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:07
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,407
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank StirB for this useful post:
  #8507  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:09
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,407
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
As much as it may pain you to admit, sadly these days it's the left which is all about shutting down opposing viewpoints and the right is more about free speech for all.
The right do tend to moan a lot about people using their free-speech to complain about what they espouse using their free-speech. It cuts both ways equally in terms of attempted silencing.
Reply With Quote
  #8508  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:34
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Well, I'm antifascist, or "antifa" as you like to call it. But I'm nowhere near far-left, more centre-right if anything. Being "antifa" is the moral and correct standpoint.
Quote:
View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Couldn't have put it better myself.

Whether you agree with their far left beliefs or not (communism, open borders) the fact that they believe political violence can be morally justifiable is very dangerous.
Reply With Quote
  #8509  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,368
Groaned at 592 Times in 449 Posts
Thanked 13,918 Times in 5,410 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Agreed, the far left and far right both have distasteful views on opposite ends of the spectrum, and both can resort to violence.

However, regardless of the propensity of both groups for violence, which lets face it is an overall human trait, in my eyes no-one in their right mind can deny that far right hateful views of racism, homophobia and ethnic purity etc are inherently more distasteful and destructive to humanity than those of the far left.
Reply With Quote
  #8510  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:50
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,929
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,950 Times in 5,626 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

If someone was screaming in my face that my race/religion/gender/sexual orientation should be subjugated, expelled and eradicated, I'd get bloody violent on their arses too. And I never fight anyone, except on the rugby pitch and that was only once and he hit me first, honest.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #8511  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:56
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 179 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 17,584 Times in 7,462 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Antifa, or Antefa is just a label. calling yourself anti-fascist doesn't make you more anti-fascist than anybody else, any more than say, visiting a gentleman's club makes you a better gentleman.

From as afr as I can make out, Antifa does not espouse any deep philioshicval view, but seeks to attract attention by violence and to intimidate people it disagrees with using violence, destruction of property or anything else. Even many left wing organisations distance themselves from the antifa and don't want them at their rallies, as having antifa on a march masisvely increases the probability that what would otherwise have been a peacful march turns into a massive fight against the police.

In fact the name anti-fascist may actually be a total misnomer, as the antifa have certain fascistesque properties. They think they are a law unto themselves, they disrupt events of people they disagree with. They smash shop windows of businesses they disagree with. All things we associate with the brownshirts of history.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #8512  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:18
StirB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,407
Groaned at 62 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 3,319 Times in 1,418 Posts
StirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond reputeStirB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Antifa, or Antefa is just a label...

From as afr as I can make out, Antifa does not espouse any deep philioshicval view
A quick Google search will disabuse you of that view.
Reply With Quote
  #8513  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:19
Castro's Avatar
la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 103 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 4,707 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Agreed, the far left and far right both have distasteful views on opposite ends of the spectrum, and both can resort to violence.
Although the far right do like their uniforms, pointy hats and other paraphernalia whereas the far left seem to be more comfortable in T-shirts and flip flops.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #8514  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:22
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
If someone was screaming in my face that my race/religion/gender/sexual orientation should be subjugated, expelled and eradicated, I'd get bloody violent on their arses too. And I never fight anyone, except on the rugby pitch and that was only once and he hit me first, honest.
Violence coupled with a sense of moral righteousness, is precisely how terrorists emerge.

-Majaad Nawaz.
Reply With Quote
  #8515  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:25
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Although the far right do like their uniforms, pointy hats and other paraphernalia whereas the far left seem to be more comfortable in T-shirts and flip flops.
Lol.
Attached Thumbnails
will-trump-good-president-antifa.jpg   will-trump-good-president-antifa2.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #8516  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:27
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,929
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,950 Times in 5,626 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
But I was referring to "antifa" as an ideology or a thought process, not the movement "Antifa". It was KK who twisted it around to refer to the latter. I have no truck with the wanton destruction of property for the hell of it, but *insert deity here*-help any little racist fecker who threatens my nearest and dearest.
Reply With Quote
  #8517  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:29
Castro's Avatar
la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Basel-Land of Smiles
Posts: 5,104
Groaned at 103 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 14,611 Times in 4,707 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Lol.
I guess his satnav was malfunctioning then

Reply With Quote
  #8518  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:31
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 8,929
Groaned at 115 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 15,950 Times in 5,626 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Violence coupled with a sense of moral righteousness, is precisely how terrorists emerge.

-Majaad Nawaz.
But it's not "moral rightousness" is it? It would be against those who are actually targeting and threatening me, or anyone.

If I were to see a skinhead walking down the street, I would probably shake my head and ignore them. As soon as that same skinhead threatens or attacks me, or anyone else for that matter, it becomes a different story. If you can't recognise that difference, you're not as smart as you think you are.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #8519  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:55
kriss kross's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: BE
Posts: 204
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,615 Times in 755 Posts
kriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of manykriss kross has earned the respect of many
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
But I was referring to "antifa" as an ideology or a thought process, not the movement "Antifa". It was KK who twisted it around to refer to the latter. I have no truck with the wanton destruction of property for the hell of it, but *insert deity here*-help any little racist fecker who threatens my nearest and dearest.
You asked ''why is the expression "antifa" demonised so?'' and I explained it to you.

It's not my fault you didn't realize that Antifa is a group which represents much more than anti-fascism.
Reply With Quote
  #8520  
Old 16.08.2017, 13:16
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,240
Groaned at 179 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 17,584 Times in 7,462 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
But it's not "moral rightousness" is it? It would be against those who are actually targeting and threatening me, or anyone.

If I were to see a skinhead walking down the street, I would probably shake my head and ignore them. As soon as that same skinhead threatens or attacks me, or anyone else for that matter, it becomes a different story. If you can't recognise that difference, you're not as smart as you think you are.
Nobody should be threatening or attacking anybody else. Period.

The antifa mindset, however, is one that says, it's okay for me to threaten and attack you because I'm right. It's not okay for you to threaten back as you're wrong.

The skinheads have much the same thinking.

So antifas are really just the left-wing equivalent of skinheads.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A generic "will my salary be good enough" post Larsh Employment 51 12.12.2017 13:51
Will Hillary Clinton run for president again? PanFastic International affairs/politics 145 29.11.2016 09:03
Poll: Will Trump win the 2020 elections? k_and_e International affairs/politics 6 14.11.2016 21:29
Will Trump be the next US President? Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 2618 14.11.2016 12:16
Shall I inform my employer that I will be self employed or be a owner of a company? Broth76 Business & entrepreneur 6 09.07.2012 17:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0