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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
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  #8501  
Old 16.08.2017, 09:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

What I don't understand is why everyone is equating the counter protest as "the left". Surely it is simply a case of the "far right" against "basically everybody else"?
Why is the expression "antifa" demonised so? Shouldn't it be the DEFAULT stance of just about every decent human being?
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  #8502  
Old 16.08.2017, 09:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Why is the expression "antifa" demonised so? Shouldn't it be the DEFAULT stance of just about every decent human being?
Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.
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  #8503  
Old 16.08.2017, 09:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.

Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far right beliefs as antifa and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them
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  #8504  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far left beliefs as fascist and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them.
Well, I'm antifascist, or "antifa" as you like to call it. But I'm nowhere near far-left, more centre-right if anything. Being "antifa" is the moral and correct standpoint.
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  #8505  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Because they label anyone who disagrees with their far right beliefs as antifa and attempts to shut them down. Because they believe in their right to violently protest anyone who disagrees with them
As much as it may pain you to admit, sadly these days it's the left which is all about shutting down opposing viewpoints and the right is more about free speech for all.
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  #8506  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
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  #8507  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by kriss kross View Post
As much as it may pain you to admit, sadly these days it's the left which is all about shutting down opposing viewpoints and the right is more about free speech for all.
The right do tend to moan a lot about people using their free-speech to complain about what they espouse using their free-speech. It cuts both ways equally in terms of attempted silencing.
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  #8508  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:34
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by PaddyG View Post
Well, I'm antifascist, or "antifa" as you like to call it. But I'm nowhere near far-left, more centre-right if anything. Being "antifa" is the moral and correct standpoint.
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Originally Posted by StirB View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Couldn't have put it better myself.

Whether you agree with their far left beliefs or not (communism, open borders) the fact that they believe political violence can be morally justifiable is very dangerous.
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  #8509  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by StirB View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Agreed, the far left and far right both have distasteful views on opposite ends of the spectrum, and both can resort to violence.

However, regardless of the propensity of both groups for violence, which lets face it is an overall human trait, in my eyes no-one in their right mind can deny that far right hateful views of racism, homophobia and ethnic purity etc are inherently more distasteful and destructive to humanity than those of the far left.
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  #8510  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

If someone was screaming in my face that my race/religion/gender/sexual orientation should be subjugated, expelled and eradicated, I'd get bloody violent on their arses too. And I never fight anyone, except on the rugby pitch and that was only once and he hit me first, honest.
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  #8511  
Old 16.08.2017, 10:56
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by StirB View Post
I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
Antifa, or Antefa is just a label. calling yourself anti-fascist doesn't make you more anti-fascist than anybody else, any more than say, visiting a gentleman's club makes you a better gentleman.

From as afr as I can make out, Antifa does not espouse any deep philioshicval view, but seeks to attract attention by violence and to intimidate people it disagrees with using violence, destruction of property or anything else. Even many left wing organisations distance themselves from the antifa and don't want them at their rallies, as having antifa on a march masisvely increases the probability that what would otherwise have been a peacful march turns into a massive fight against the police.

In fact the name anti-fascist may actually be a total misnomer, as the antifa have certain fascistesque properties. They think they are a law unto themselves, they disrupt events of people they disagree with. They smash shop windows of businesses they disagree with. All things we associate with the brownshirts of history.
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  #8512  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Antifa, or Antefa is just a label...

From as afr as I can make out, Antifa does not espouse any deep philioshicval view
A quick Google search will disabuse you of that view.
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  #8513  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Agreed, the far left and far right both have distasteful views on opposite ends of the spectrum, and both can resort to violence.
Although the far right do like their uniforms, pointy hats and other paraphernalia whereas the far left seem to be more comfortable in T-shirts and flip flops.
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  #8514  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If someone was screaming in my face that my race/religion/gender/sexual orientation should be subjugated, expelled and eradicated, I'd get bloody violent on their arses too. And I never fight anyone, except on the rugby pitch and that was only once and he hit me first, honest.
Violence coupled with a sense of moral righteousness, is precisely how terrorists emerge.

-Majaad Nawaz.
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  #8515  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Although the far right do like their uniforms, pointy hats and other paraphernalia whereas the far left seem to be more comfortable in T-shirts and flip flops.
Lol.
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  #8516  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think the point KK is making is that Antifa and being anti-fascist are two different things.

Antifa the movement is a far-left group, who promote some excellent ideas - anti-fascism, anti-homophobia and anti-sexism, but also some ideas that people may consider less popular in the USA, like anti-capitalism and anarchism.

Everyone should be anti-fascist, however, a lot of people probably aren't totally comfortable with the anarchic side of the Antifa movement.
But I was referring to "antifa" as an ideology or a thought process, not the movement "Antifa". It was KK who twisted it around to refer to the latter. I have no truck with the wanton destruction of property for the hell of it, but *insert deity here*-help any little racist fecker who threatens my nearest and dearest.
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  #8517  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Lol.
I guess his satnav was malfunctioning then

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  #8518  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Violence coupled with a sense of moral righteousness, is precisely how terrorists emerge.

-Majaad Nawaz.
But it's not "moral rightousness" is it? It would be against those who are actually targeting and threatening me, or anyone.

If I were to see a skinhead walking down the street, I would probably shake my head and ignore them. As soon as that same skinhead threatens or attacks me, or anyone else for that matter, it becomes a different story. If you can't recognise that difference, you're not as smart as you think you are.
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  #8519  
Old 16.08.2017, 11:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by PaddyG View Post
But I was referring to "antifa" as an ideology or a thought process, not the movement "Antifa". It was KK who twisted it around to refer to the latter. I have no truck with the wanton destruction of property for the hell of it, but *insert deity here*-help any little racist fecker who threatens my nearest and dearest.
You asked ''why is the expression "antifa" demonised so?'' and I explained it to you.

It's not my fault you didn't realize that Antifa is a group which represents much more than anti-fascism.
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  #8520  
Old 16.08.2017, 12:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Originally Posted by PaddyG View Post
But it's not "moral rightousness" is it? It would be against those who are actually targeting and threatening me, or anyone.

If I were to see a skinhead walking down the street, I would probably shake my head and ignore them. As soon as that same skinhead threatens or attacks me, or anyone else for that matter, it becomes a different story. If you can't recognise that difference, you're not as smart as you think you are.
Nobody should be threatening or attacking anybody else. Period.

The antifa mindset, however, is one that says, it's okay for me to threaten and attack you because I'm right. It's not okay for you to threaten back as you're wrong.

The skinheads have much the same thinking.

So antifas are really just the left-wing equivalent of skinheads.
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