I see with my eyes, Phos, hence the difference. I see the unleashing of racism and many other ugly -isms. You see this as a reversal of the apple-cart. You like the dissension, you seem to feed off the uncertainty.

Many like me are concerned about stability, a future worth speaking of, a climate for growth.
The only thing Trump is concerned about growing is his personal wealth. It amazes me that you refuse to even entertain that thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/us...ners.html?_r=0

(DT rubbing his tiny hands together)

You need to be able to discern your imagination from reality. I wonder if you even have any experience or clue about life in the US.

I believe this is due to an unhealthy and unrealistic obsession with race. Well, not all of us are obsessed with race. We get along fine with each other without its mention. When someone comes along and insists on it, it is actually reinforcing more racism than otherwise.

Sorry for you, but it doesn't and it won't fit into your limited view what real life is like out there, fortunately.

Maybe there are junctures in history that it is necessary to reverese apple carts. Old guards rarely relinquish power voluntarily. And yes, sometimes the good does end up being trodden into the gutter with the bad. But such is the nature of change. And sometimes when old guards see the writing is on the wall they seek to let the old world go up in flames rather than surrender an iota to the new guys. It is easy to stoke up hatred and racism and then blame the other side. But that strategy can sometimes backfire.

But let's not get too lyric. The events that are happening in the US right now are not on that scale.

America was in desperate need of disruption. Everyone there I have spoken to has known and acknowledge it for many, many years now. Now that it has come, some like it, some don't. But that is the nature of disruption. When you disrupt a certain pattern, it is merely opportunity to reconstitute a better thought or process than its previous state. Fortunately, this is not very bloody, perhaps a few bloody noses here and there.

Despite being an "anti American", I agree, America is, and has been, in desperate need of change.

I just don't see Trump as changing things for the better. You do. Your view is purely conjecture. I am going to wait and see.

I think you are prognosticating, no? I'm merely pointing to opportunities for positive change. How that is handled, and whether or not it succeeds is another matter neither of us can predict.

Deutsche Bank apparently sees the upside already:
Deutsche Bank: Trump Could Push the U.S. Economy and Stock Markets to New Records

I honestly don't think I'm the one lacking objectivity here.

No Phos, what I am doing is withholding judgement until something actually changes.

Your Bloomberg quote above, see that word "Could" in the title? There is a (real) world of difference between "Could" and "Is".

As to prognosticating, here would be a prime example of that:

You peer into your orbuculum as much as you want. Neither of us know the future, your conjecture is not objective.

That is called "good 'ol optimism". I think what we should do is wait after his first 3 or 6 months and talk then. I'm excited and looking forward to it, but sorry for you folks who are frightened. Although I do believe how you react to it is a choice you make for yourself.

I think the word you are looking for is "skeptical". The general feeling on the forum and in the wider world is, if you're not a Trump fanboy, you are pretty much skeptical over his abilities to succeed.

On balance I would have been skeptical over Clinton, too. It would have been nice to get someone in that knew their arse from their elbow.

The ones I am genuinely sorry for are those living on the poverty line, and who voted for him because they truly believe he will revive their industries, create jobs for them, help them recover and give them a chance at a better life.

This self-made man, he didn't start from scratch, he was handed wealth and privilege. He is currently the champion of the people. But I have a gut feeling that he will disappoint millions of those who voted for him.

Many posts ago, I mentioned the novel "Animal Farm" in which one set of 'abusive' masters are overthrown, only to be replaced with far worse.

From what I've seen since election day, that is exactly the route the US is heading. I could be wrong, of course, and for once I sincerely hope that I am. For all our sakes.

Orwell's Animal Farm more describes what would happen under Clinton. It's an allegory of socialism.

I think you are making assumptions of the beliefs of those who voted for him.

The thing about a democracy is that its a certainty that a large portion of the people will not get their way. I don't think Trump promised everybody everything. That is not job, and that is not why people voted for him. He basically promised to change the court of government, and stimulate the economy.

Optimism, Phos, is only beneficial if there are really solid grounds for believing that a state of affairs will come to be. I am optimistic that I will see the sun rise tomorrow. Until I actually see the sun rise this remains conjecture. In retrospect, my optimism will be "good optimism".

Here is my objection to your "Good 'ol optimism": Lets say that Trump was, in fact a bad man. What would he have to do to to shake your good 'ol optimism? Ignore the constitution, populate the govt with cronies, engage in an ill advised war (military or trade)? At what point would you put your pom poms down and say "Crap, we need to stop this guy"?

At the moment he's trying to fight an online war with the cast of SNL and a musical, and he's not taking much ground. This is the guy who claims to know more about ISIS than the generals?

For the moment he seems more like the small dickhead pal who used to come to the pub with a group and pick fights for the most asinine possible reason.

__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.

I think your characterisation of what I believe is off, and so your conclusion of it is also off. First of all, this is bigger than Trump. Trump can drop dead tomorrow, and he has already accomplished a much needed statement about the current state of affairs.

As for his impact, Trump can very well be a bad evil person for those whose interests are contrary to his. So if you are interested in some of your idealisation of how the US should be, then he could very well be bad for you. I don't expect everybody to be happy about him, nor is that his role. Look for some movie celebrity for that purpose.

Positionally and directional, I'm fine with Trump. For example, I approve of the kinds of SC justices he wants to appoint, and his non-interventionist approach when there is no real American interest. My only problem with him, what kept me from voting for him, was his temperament. But he can get as stupid and goofy as he wants, as long as he delivers what he is suppose to. I don't think his job is to be liked. Hell, I don't really like him as a person. I just admire what he's accomplished. He's smart and capable. I'll have to see what those accomplishments look like. In the meantime, I'm glad someone in government is finally trying.

News Update from Canada:

The flood of Trump-fearing American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week. The Republican presidential campaign is prompting an exodus among left-leaning Americans who fear they'll soon be required to hunt, pray, pay taxes, and live according to the Constitution.

Canadian border residents say it's not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, liberal arts majors, global-warming activists, and "green" energy proponents crossing their fields at night.

"I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn," said southern Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. "He was cold, exhausted and hungry, and begged me for a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn't have any, he left before I even got a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?"

In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. He then installed loudspeakers that blared Rush Limbaugh across the fields, but they just stuck their fingers in their ears and kept coming. Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals just south of the border, pack them into electric cars, and drive them across the border, where they are simply left to fend for themselves after the battery dies.

"A lot of these people are not prepared for our rugged conditions," an Alberta border patrolman said. "I found one carload without a single bottle of Perrier water, or any gemelli with shrimp and arugula. All they had was a nice little Napa Valley cabernet and some kale chips. When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often wailing that they fear persecution from Trump high-hairers.

Rumors are circulating about plans being made to build re-education camps where liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer, study the Constitution, and find jobs that actually contribute to the economy.

In recent days, liberals have turned to ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have been disguised as senior citizens taking a bus trip to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans in blue-hair wig disguises, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior citizens about Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney to prove that they were alive in the '50s.

"If they can't identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we become very suspicious about their age," an official said.

Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli shortage, are buying up all the Barbara Streisand CD's, and are overloading the internet while downloading jazzercise apps to their cell phones.

"I really feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can't support them," an Ottawa resident said. "After all, how many art-history majors does one country need?

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/gener...uild-wall.html

Here is the link to one of the SNL skits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUWSLlz0Fdo

Brilliant. Especially Kellyann having a nervous breakdown.

Some of those liberals sure are hairy

Arithmetics

The Trump U lawsuit said the university defrauded between 5000 to 6000 students. Let's take 5000 (the lowest number) and say they all paid around $35 000 each, which adds to $175 000 000. He gets sued and settles to pay back $25 000 000, and pockets the rest ($ 150 000 000!, of course, minus the expenses).

Trump twitted: “The ONLY bad thing about winning the Presidency is that I did not have the time to go through a long but winning trial on Trump U. Too bad!”

Yes, I'm sure he'll make a great prez.

He also said "Donald Trump says $25m settlement represented ‘small fraction’ of potential award" in Twitter post

Source

Claiming he got away with paying a lot less than a court would have awarded is less than edifying

Thank you Donald Trump for sparing the rest of the World from Kanye West's World Tour.

http://news.sky.com/story/kanye-west...-tour-10666690

Funny how this part of the quote reminds me of a certain EF member...Hmmm...