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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
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  #9501  
Old 24.10.2017, 23:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

with such a tiny majority, 52 to 48 - any loss can be fatal to Trump- many others are beginning to feel the same- it would not take much. Did you see Bloomsberg comments today?

From the Guardian today:

the billionaire media mogul and former mayor of New York, has said Brexit is the “single stupidest thing any country has ever done” apart from the election of Donald Trump as US president.

Bloomberg argued that “it is really hard to understand why a country that was doing so well wanted to ruin it” with the Brexit vote, in a series of outspoken remarks made at a technology conference in Boston a fortnight ago.
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Old 25.10.2017, 00:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well said!

My husband and I are European, we live in the USA, and there is nowhere else we'd rather live. If anything, we see a clearer picture of the positives and negatives of this country, and are happy to stay here without drama, and do our small part to make our lives and the lives of those around us better.

We realize that the past elections and subsequent events have brought to light things that had long been brewing under the table, and, in many cases, there is greater awareness and much more active engagement in the community. Many people in this country were "asleep" and a bit complacent, or very angry without an outlet, or very unaware. I was very unaware - despite living and traveling all over the world, I had a very skewed, very partial vision of reality in the USA, for many reasons including having only lived as an adult in certain parts of the country, which are by no means representative of the whole!

So we are going nowhere anytime soon - well ok, perhaps if my husband has his way, at some point we'll trade our place in DC for a log cabin somewhere
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  #9503  
Old 25.10.2017, 08:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have a colleague and a friend in our Atlanta office who came from Romania because she won the Green Card lottery. She only had a high school diploma, and came from a middle class family who definitely could not support her or pay any of her expenses in the US. Incredibly bright and motivated, she did a series of jobs while studying when she could, got a college education, got a masters education, got her CPA, is having a brilliant career and on the fast-track to partnership. I only met her a couple of years ago but did not know the story until recently, and I was flabbergasted.

Stories like these rarely make the news, but they happen.
Yeah, there are many examples like this from all over the world, probably. But it's very exceptional to win the green card lottery though. I know a couple too, she was the one to win (also from Romania) but they sold everything they could before leaving. I was working with her at that time and everybody knew of their "garage" sale, their small studio sale, so they didn't get there penniless. Although they discovered that the amount was incredibly low for America and was going fast! And they had a family (some family friends or something like that) in NY to help them out for the first month. They "made" it, but they weren't penniless to begin with and both of them had university degrees, I know they continued their studies there but still.
So I guess everybody knows stories like this, which aren't maybe that exceptional at all, except for the winning green card part. The truth is that the rest of people I know (young people I mean) went there due to a job or studies, and with some money on their name.
It's a romantic image America still has, that proves to be true in many cases, but it's not that simple there either if one wants a certain level - i.e. house in the suburbs, being able to save for the kids' college etc etc. (and 99% of people go there for that level, only 1% are adventurers I would say)
But, in all fairness, I don't know anyone who didn't find what they were looking for there. They still miss that European "vibe" though, all are nostalgic in some ways, still educate their children old school style - good grades and school achievements, respect for the parents, curfew hours, not much parental "liberalism" lol. School is school, kids must respect their parents etc. Maybe their children will be the American liberals of tomorrow, who knows.

Last edited by greenmount; 25.10.2017 at 08:56.
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Old 25.10.2017, 08:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have a colleague and a friend in our Atlanta office who came from Romania because she won the Green Card lottery. She only had a high school diploma, and came from a middle class family who definitely could not support her or pay any of her expenses in the US. Incredibly bright and motivated, she did a series of jobs while studying when she could, got a college education, got a masters education, got her CPA, is having a brilliant career and on the fast-track to partnership. I only met her a couple of years ago but did not know the story until recently, and I was flabbergasted.

Stories like these rarely make the news, but they happen.
Stories like these don't even remotely begin to make statistics. Just like someones uncle who lived to be 100 despite smoking every day doesn't.

Fact is that the US has one of the worst social / economic mobility records of any western country. If you're born to poor parents in the US you are likely to stay poor (Italy and the UK are slightly worse btw but the rest of the EU better or much better). Some studies...:
http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-l...ries-mobility/
https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...awhill_ch3.pdf
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  #9505  
Old 25.10.2017, 10:29
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Stories like these don't even remotely begin to make statistics. Just like someones uncle who lived to be 100 despite smoking every day doesn't.

Fact is that the US has one of the worst social / economic mobility records of any western country. If you're born to poor parents in the US you are likely to stay poor (Italy and the UK are slightly worse btw but the rest of the EU better or much better). Some studies...:
http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-l...ries-mobility/
https://www.oecd.org/centrodemexico/medios/44582910.pdf
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...awhill_ch3.pdf
BokerTov was referring to immigrants though. I have no doubts that social inertia is very high in some countries, but blissfully unaware of it, many immigrants manage to do better than some of those who are born and bred there, especially if they come with a certain mentality and/or education.
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:36
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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BokerTov was referring to immigrants though. I have no doubts that social inertia is very high in some countries, but blissfully unaware of it, many immigrants manage to do better than some of those who are born and bred there, especially if they come with a certain mentality and education.
The US used to be pretty good for groups which came with literally nothing whatsoever (the boat people, for example), I'm not sure if that is still the case.

I suspect that the current mood is largely backlash, from US born citizens who haven't reached the kind of rock bottom that arriving with the shirt on your back represents.
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:36
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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My husband and I are European, we live in the USA, and there is nowhere else we'd rather live.
The grass is always greener.

Tom
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Except that I don’t really believe you can arrive in the US penniless, work hard and succeed as a rule. For one thing, unless you arrive as a refugee or asylum seeker, you’re not going to get in without resources, support. For legal immigration you are not going to get in without quite a few pennies and usually someone to sponsor you.

So it’s a nice romantic story and all, but it’s just that.....a story. More American exceptionalism. Now refugees and asylum seekers might do ok, but they are usually supported by a community or group.
A fair point, edot. I was more thinking of the families I grew up with, some of them very poor and struggling to put food on the table, yet those kids grew up, got jobs to put themselves through school, and are now quite successful.

You are right that if someone showed up visa-less and penniless it would be tough. However at least in the U.S., people can get simple, unskilled jobs even without English skills and start working their way up. In Switzerland (it seems) one needs at least basic German/French/Italian and at least a Beruf certificate or better yet a Master's degree!

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with such a tiny majority, 52 to 48 - any loss can be fatal to Trump- many others are beginning to feel the same- it would not take much.
Flake's decision not to run again gives Democrats a real shot at another seat in the Senate at the midterms. However the House is likely to stay Republican, thanks to gerrymandering making many more safe districts for Rs than for Ds.

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...in all fairness, I don't know anyone who didn't find what they were looking for there. They still miss that European "vibe" though, all are nostalgic in some ways, still educate their children old school style - good grades and school achievements, respect for the parents, curfew hours, not much parental "liberalism" lol. School is school, kids must respect their parents etc. Maybe their children will be the American liberals of tomorrow, who knows.
That's also my (obviously biased) perspective. We see many stories on EF of people with excellent language skills and qualifications that can't even get a job stocking shelves at Migros. Those same folks would at least be able to scrabble together a few restaurant jobs in the U.S. to make a living.
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Just think, in only three years he'll win a second term!

Tom
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Just think, in only three years he'll win a second term!

Tom
Wouldn't he have to win the candidacy first or is he automatically through as the incumbent leader? i.e. when a president runs for re-election does he have to go through the same election process as he did beforehand?
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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...
That's also my (obviously biased) perspective. We see many stories on EF of people with excellent language skills and qualifications that can't even get a job stocking shelves at Migros. Those same folks would at least be able to scrabble together a few restaurant jobs in the U.S. to make a living.
I think downward mobility is a problem in the Swiss job market. It's a reflection of the implicit belief in specialist skills. Try applying for a job below the level you've worked at, and when the interviewer asks "This is below your previous experience and pay level, why are you willing to take a cut?" answer them "Because I need a job so I can feed myself and my family."

That will probably be the end of the interview.
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Old 25.10.2017, 10:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Just think, in only three years he'll win a second term!

Tom
Indeed. Even if half of the supporters who are 200% behind Trump lose faith in him entirely, he'll still have 100% backing. (Not that I've heard anyone who was for Trump admit that it might not be working out as they expected.)
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Old 25.10.2017, 11:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Just think, in only three years he'll win a second term!

Tom
I think he might.
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  #9514  
Old 25.10.2017, 11:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yep, still lots of people who can see their future in the USA, Trump or no Trump.
On the other hand I'd really want an invasion of American "liberals" in Europe, who knows they might change something.
Part of their agenda (I feel this word is negatively connotated, I dont mean it that way) is already spilling over:


http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...agen--16245386



A good expample of clickbaitjournalism:


Title: Quote: "White People should stop wearing dreadlocks"
Her Statement in the interview:
Weisse, hört auf, unsere Kultur zu übernehmen und damit Geld zu machen, Dreadlocks oder afrikanische Kleidung zu tragen. Tragt unseren Schmuck und hört unsere Musik als Zeichen der Integration und der Anerkennung afrikanischer Kultur. Und nicht als austauschbarer Konsumartikel, an dem alle verdienen, nur nicht die Urheber.»
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Part of their agenda (I feel this word is negatively connotated, I dont mean it that way) is already spilling over:


http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...agen--16245386



A good expample of clickbaitjournalism:


Title: Quote: "White People should stop wearing dreadlocks"
Her Statement in the interview:
Weisse, hört auf, unsere Kultur zu übernehmen und damit Geld zu machen, Dreadlocks oder afrikanische Kleidung zu tragen. Tragt unseren Schmuck und hört unsere Musik als Zeichen der Integration und der Anerkennung afrikanischer Kultur. Und nicht als austauschbarer Konsumartikel, an dem alle verdienen, nur nicht die Urheber.»
I would call this sterile attitude the opposite of cultural enrichment. So, in order to respectfully support diversity we actually completely ban it. Clickbait it is, indeed. Or, a dogma, really.
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Just think, in only three years he'll win a second term!

Tom
Fine, so long as he continues as a lame duck president failing to bring in significant new legislation.
Fighting with Senate members of his own party is an unusual strategy for success!
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think he might.
Phew, even staunch Trumpers are finally beginning to equivocate!
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  #9518  
Old 25.10.2017, 12:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think downward mobility is a problem in the Swiss job market. It's a reflection of the implicit belief in specialist skills. Try applying for a job below the level you've worked at, and when the interviewer asks "This is below your previous experience and pay level, why are you willing to take a cut?" answer them "Because I need a job so I can feed myself and my family."

That will probably be the end of the interview.
Downward mobility is an issue in many places. The US, too.
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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with such a tiny majority, 52 to 48 - any loss can be fatal to Trump- many others are beginning to feel the same- it would not take much. Did you see Bloomsberg comments today?

From the Guardian today:

the billionaire media mogul and former mayor of New York, has said Brexit is the “single stupidest thing any country has ever done” apart from the election of Donald Trump as US president.

Bloomberg argued that “it is really hard to understand why a country that was doing so well wanted to ruin it” with the Brexit vote, in a series of outspoken remarks made at a technology conference in Boston a fortnight ago.
Yesterday, there was a vote in the senate. 50-50, and Pence broke the tie. Despite his lovely speech, Flake voted with the rest of the R’s. The vote involved regulations blocking consumers from class action law suits.

So, it’s nice that he spoke up against Trump, I guess, but it changes very little. Once again, look at the actions....speech and antics are distractions.
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Old 25.10.2017, 12:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Fine, so long as he continues as a lame duck president failing to bring in significant new legislation.
Fighting with Senate members of his own party is an unusual strategy for success!
The main advantage of his tenure is that he's blocking the nutjob which is Mike Pence. Let's hope he doesn't die, or show signs of insanity or anything else to get himself impeached until the next election.
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