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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 61 27.35%
No 162 72.65%
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  #10121  
Old 11.12.2017, 16:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I wanted to write the same as medea, but I dont know how to write without coming across as antisemitic.




Guilt I guess?
Wow, I didn't even read her kind suggestions...sorry, I'm multitasking and missed a few posts. All the credit I gave her is gone now, but I'm not taking this discussion any further on an anonymous forum. It seems some people have strong opinions and I don't have the time, neither the inclination to debate them on a forum like this. (and personally I'm not even Jewish)

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Wow, I'm sure glad to read a good person's suggestion
Lol, one needs the emotional maturity of an elephant to cope with the things written on here.
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  #10122  
Old 11.12.2017, 16:37
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Why is anyone using one of three ancient compendia of faerie stories to base foreign policy on, in 2017?
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  #10123  
Old 11.12.2017, 16:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Why is anyone using one of three ancient compendia of faerie stories to base foreign policy on, in 2017?
Probably because somewhere in the world many others are doing the same.
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  #10124  
Old 11.12.2017, 16:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Wow, I didn't even read her kind suggestions...sorry, I'm multitasking and missed a few posts. All the credit I gave her is gone now, but I'm not taking this discussion any further on an anonymous forum. It seems some people have strong opinions and I don't have the time, neither the inclination to debate them on a forum like this. (and personally I'm not even Jewish)



Lol, one needs the emotional maturity of an elephant to cope with the things written on here.

Oops I did a major mistake here, I didnt read all her post too.

I was just referring to her statement to this quote:
"The Jewish in the USA have their fingers everywhere"
In this point I agree with her, that this statement per se isn't antisemitic.
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  #10125  
Old 11.12.2017, 16:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But whereas the Bible abbreviates many Talmudic passages and skips some of the more obscure stuff entirely, it does not contradict the Talmud on any major issues as far as I am aware, and conserves the spirit of the text. The Bible can thus be seen to build on and extend the Talmud without discarding it. So the only thing that separates Judaism from Christinaity is that Jews don't agree with the bits Christians added, and Christians regret that Jews don't accept those bits.

The Koran, on the other hand, rewrites several passages in a fundamentally different way. For example the story of Abraham sacrificing his son, where according to Bible and Talmud it was Isaac who was to be sacrificed, the Koran has the other son, Ismael, in his place. This deligitimizes many of the descendants of Isaac and causes many problems of interpretation.

The Koran also denies the deity of Jesus (reducing him to a prophet), the virginity of Mary, the Resurection, the Trinity and other concepts that are fundamental to Christianity. It does thus not build on and further advance Christianity but contradicts it.

So I would posture that Christianiity and Judaism are related more closely to one-another than either is to Islam.
BTW, the Koran does not deny the virginity of Mary!
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  #10126  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But suppose Switzerland was to transfer its capital to Kreuzlingen, would Germany object and would angry crowds start burning Swiss flags?
Sovereignty over Kreuzlingen and Konstanz are undisputed.

But let's say CH attacked and beat Germany, annexed the parts of Konstanz that are on the Swiss side of the Rhine (or all of Konstanz if you prefer) and declared the resulting Kreuzstanz CH's capital. Now imagine the effect if the US recognised not Kreuzlingen but Kreuzstanz as CH's capital. That's roughly what just happened WRT Jerusalem.
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You cannot compare a situation where two nations have been at peace for a very long time to one where war could break out any minute.
Quite the contrary. You'd probably be hard pressed to identify even one pair of European neighbors that never battled each other in the past. It demonstrates that a transition from war to not just peace but actual cooperation for mutual gain is possible.
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It would seem to me that having a state, any state at all, might be advantageous to the Palestinians in a first step, accompanied by a resolution that the status of the other territories remains open so they can renegotiate them when the time is ripe.
Israel makes sure this won't happen as long as it can help it. Time is on their side, as has just been demonstrated by Trump.
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  #10127  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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BTW, the Koran does not deny the virginity of Mary!

(Quran 19:16-21)
Suggests she was touched outside of marriage. The slag. Stone her to death.
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  #10128  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:27
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Quite the contrary. You'd probably be hard pressed to identify even one pair of European neighbors that never battled each other in the past. It demonstrates that a transition from war to not just peace but actual cooperation for mutual gain is possible.
Peace is always possible. But a peace that has been around for many generations inspires more trust than one that could mabe theoretically exist on paper. For there to be trust between Israel and Palestine there needs to be peace first. And that peace needs to mature before it can be built on. The Palestinians are letting details of the border get in the way of peace. Yes, maybe this is a herring thrown at them by the Israeli side. But that's no excuse for going after it.

In a dispute between a stronger and a weaker partner, the weaker partner needs to be smarter. Today it seems to me the Israelis are both stronger and smarter. The Palestians need to elect a smarter leadership.

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Israel makes sure this won't happen as long as it can help it. Time is on their side, as has just been demonstrated by Trump.
I don't see what Israel benefits from a near-war situation on its hands. I'm sure that if the Palestinans could start putting forward workable compromises the Israelis would listen. Maybe not the extremists and idiots, but the people in the political middle ground who can sway the balance of power.

I don't know if Trump is this smart. But just maybe his strategy is to kill off the border dispute by creating facts that cannot be reversed, thus forcing the compromise to be built on other points where agreement is more possible.

A bit like after WW2, the allies making it quite clear to Germany that there was no discussion of giving back the lost teritories (except the Saarland) and so forcing them to move the debate with their neighbours to more forward looking things such as the economy.
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  #10129  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I don't see what Israel benefits from a near-war situation on its hands. I'm sure that if the Palestinans could start putting forward workable compromises the Israelis would listen. Maybe not the extremists and idiots, but the people in the political middle ground who can sway the balance of power.
Israel doesn't benefit in the slightest, but the extremists (in power) and idiots do.
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  #10130  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Israel doesn't benefit in the slightest, but the extremists (in power) and idiots do.
Excatly.

Yet every time some mortars are fired onto Israel or some idiot blows themselves up, that is strengthening the extremists and idiots and weakening the middle ground.

So the Palestians are helping those who hate them the most by acting like the worst possible caricatures of themselves.

PS: i'm totally aware that the same can be said of the extremists on the Israeli side, who cynically know they are provoking such reactions.
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  #10131  
Old 11.12.2017, 17:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So the Palestians are helping those who hate them the most by acting like the worst possible caricatures of themselves.
All of them? Or just the ones that get a bit of free time away from suffering under apartheid?

The Palestinians have very little recourse here, they are outmanned, outgunned and very much outspent in every department, let's not pretend this is a fair fight in any way at all. It's akin to Vladimir Klitschko battering a local 13 year old every time he saw him. As always, suffering breeds hate and there are plenty of people keen to exploit this to further their own agenda, but chucking all Palestinians into the "terrorist" pot is very dangerous as it justifies Israel's actions.

Of course, when the Palestinians strike a lucky blow now and again, then that gives the Israeli establishment just that little bit more leeway to retaliate with excessive force. If Israel genuinely value peace, they will make a few concessions to bring it about - but as it stands, clearly keeping the fight going is more important than a peace effort (no doubt all the while getting prodded by the US Military Industrial Complex, if there's misery somewhere, there's a profit to be made).

A pretty horrble cycle of violence, but in all these things, it is the people with the upper hand who need to offer concessions as if you have nothing, you can't offer much.
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  #10132  
Old 11.12.2017, 18:24
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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One more question: <<will call for Congress to investigate the allegations at a press conference>> can the Congress not be approached directly? Only via a press conference??
Wouldn't it be somehow more legitimate?
The first step in righting wrongdoing by a sitting president is a congressional investigation. If enough comes out of an investigation to believe the president is no longer fit for office, a committe of the House of Representatives drawing articles of impeachment, then bringing the articles to a vote by the full house. If the president is impeached by the house, the next step is a trial by the Senate - again, a vote.

As such, the process is entirely political.

Guess who controls the House and Senate? The Republicans, Trump's own party.

So unless Trump does something so mind-boggling egregious, something so bad that 'the base' pulls it's collective head out of the sand and starts demanding action from their congress critters to the point where those Worthy Gentlefolk start to fear for their next reelection bid... Or unless Trump does something to seriously p*ss off the Donor Class to the point where it collectively closes it's checkbook, sparking the same fear among the congress critters for their reelection campaigns...

As things stand today... Ain't nevva gonna happen.

The press conference is simply a way to try to bring attention to the issue, hoping maybe to reach those heads firmly stuck in the sand. An end run, so to speak, 'cause our craven congress critters aren't listening.

#politicaltheater(of the absurd)


ETA:

One reason that there isn't all that much energy (yet) behind an impeachment movement is the consequences of 'success'. Impeachment/trial/removal of Trump gives us Pence. Out of the frying pan into the fire.
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  #10133  
Old 11.12.2017, 18:30
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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All of them? Or just the ones that get a bit of free time away from suffering under apartheid?
No, of course not.

But my argument still stands. Palestainans need smarter leaders and need to come away from the all or nothing mentality.

Get them started on a small subset of the territory. Let them rule it themselves. Let them show the world how succesful they are and what a wonderful place it becomes. The rest will follow.

Instead they are stuck in a rut of demanding things they know full well that Israel won't give them.
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  #10134  
Old 11.12.2017, 18:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Get them started on a small subset of the territory. Let them rule it themselves. Let them show the world how succesful they are and what a wonderful place it becomes. The rest will follow.
That seems more than a touch condescending.
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  #10135  
Old 11.12.2017, 18:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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One reason that there isn't all that much energy (yet) behind an impeachment movement is the consequences of 'success'. Impeachment/trial/removal of Trump gives us Pence. Out of the frying pan into the fire.
Indeed, one of Trumps master strokes was choosing Pence.

Tom
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  #10136  
Old 11.12.2017, 20:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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All of them? Or just the ones that get a bit of free time away from suffering under apartheid?

The Palestinians have very little recourse here, they are outmanned, outgunned and very much outspent in every department, let's not pretend this is a fair fight in any way at all. It's akin to Vladimir Klitschko battering a local 13 year old every time he saw him. As always, suffering breeds hate and there are plenty of people keen to exploit this to further their own agenda, but chucking all Palestinians into the "terrorist" pot is very dangerous as it justifies Israel's actions.

Of course, when the Palestinians strike a lucky blow now and again, then that gives the Israeli establishment just that little bit more leeway to retaliate with excessive force. If Israel genuinely value peace, they will make a few concessions to bring it about - but as it stands, clearly keeping the fight going is more important than a peace effort (no doubt all the while getting prodded by the US Military Industrial Complex, if there's misery somewhere, there's a profit to be made).

A pretty horrble cycle of violence, but in all these things, it is the people with the upper hand who need to offer concessions as if you have nothing, you can't offer much.
The Palestinians don't have much, the odd 5 star hotel or so
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  #10137  
Old 11.12.2017, 21:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The Palestinians don't have much, the odd 5 star hotel or so
The al-Mashtal is Gaza's first five-star hotel, providing vital jobs and training to the area. ... The al-Mashtal is Gaza's first and only five-star hotel, an ambitious project in a place where there are no tourists and around 70% of the population lives below the poverty line.

Seems a quality business plan!
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  #10138  
Old 11.12.2017, 21:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Seems a quality business plan!
well it's since been joined by the Blue Beach Resort Gaza, so there was obviously a gap in the market.
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  #10139  
Old 11.12.2017, 21:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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well it's since been joined by the Blue Beach Resort Gaza, so there was obviously a gap in the market.
Looks nice, 160 rooms and a private beach!

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  #10140  
Old 11.12.2017, 21:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The al-Mashtal is Gaza's first five-star hotel, providing vital jobs and training to the area. ... The al-Mashtal is Gaza's first and only five-star hotel, an ambitious project in a place where there are no tourists and around 70% of the population lives below the poverty line.

Seems a quality business plan!
The 5 Best 5 Star Hotels in Gaza City of 2017 (with Prices) here
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