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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
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  #10661  
Old 29.12.2017, 16:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Social mobility?

You mean destroying the solidarity of the working classes by inviting some of us to "better" ourselves and end up like fish out of water, too posh for the Uxbridge Arms and too common for the Widder Bar?

It's overrated.

Now back to Trump...
I have never understood the class mentality in the UK.
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  #10662  
Old 29.12.2017, 16:57
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have never understood the class mentality in the UK.
The same principles apply in the United States:

https://www.wiley.com/en-ch/Limbo:+B...-9780471263760
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Old 29.12.2017, 17:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Now back to Trump...
Trump's 2017: "We thank him for the opportunity and blessing"
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  #10664  
Old 29.12.2017, 17:19
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I have never understood the class mentality in the UK.
This sums it up beautifully. Upper and working class tend to get along well, but the middle class bugger it up for all of us.

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Old 29.12.2017, 17:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Pops just tweeted! Phew! I thought he might have forgotten.

Promises to be another interesting year, and I certainly hope it isn't anything like "normal".
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  #10666  
Old 30.12.2017, 00:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz slammed President Trump’s response to Hurricane Maria as Puerto Rico reached the 100-day mark since the hurricane. Cruz told ABC News that Trump was “disrespectful” to the island's U.S. citizens in his approach to the disaster and recovery process.

Maria swept through Puerto Rico on Sept. 20, wiping out power on the island and leaving thousands without clean drinking water.

Months later, a large portion of the electrical grid is still not up and running. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers told ABC News that it may take until May to have power fully restored.

Source

Meanwhile, the revolving door of senior White House officials is virtually unprecedented for modern White Houses. Figures compiled by the Brookings Institution showed 34 percent of senior Trump officials have resigned, been fired or left their roles in Year 1.

The administration with the next-highest first-year turnover rate was Ronald Reagan’s, which was 17 percent.
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  #10667  
Old 30.12.2017, 00:36
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The same principles apply in the United States:

https://www.wiley.com/en-ch/Limbo:+B...-9780471263760
Trump seems to suffer from the same conflicts which could be why he opts for conflict rather than diplomacy.

From my viewpoint he seems to have integrated well with the "old money" people who can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower despite his Scottish mother and German grandfather.
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  #10668  
Old 30.12.2017, 01:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump seems to suffer from the same conflicts which could be why he opts for conflict rather than diplomacy.

From my viewpoint he seems to have integrated well with the "old money" people who can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower despite his Scottish mother and German grandfather.
Who on earth wants to live their lives according to labels and categories somebody else thinks one should belong to? Blue collar, white collar, working class, middle class, whatever. You can be whatever you want to be. Even the president of the USA...lol The whole concept of classes is so outdated and ridiculous. I don't deny it still exists in some people's mind, it's just not what each and everybody pays attention to. Probably that's why some can and do integrate wherever they want, and others - not. But yeah, the classes and the predefined places we should occupy. A lot of things and opinions here make complete sense through these views.

But no, I think Trump's conflicts stem from his childhood and family - there are some theories I read but I won't go into details now, nothing to do with classes, old money or new money. He obviously didn't have any social anxiety or inferiority complexes in regards with that. However, whenever he could mock and bully others to feel better about himself, he did it. The sad part is that a large part of the American public applauded and lauded him. A bit like what we see in plenty of other situations....seriously, I think this is what a lot of people like, that's why his success, or plenty of other leaders' success.

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  #10669  
Old 30.12.2017, 09:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Blue collar, white collar, working class, middle class, whatever. You can be whatever you want to be. Even the president of the USA...lol The whole concept of classes is so outdated and ridiculous. I don't deny it still exists in some people's mind, it's just not what each and everybody pays attention to.
...But it is. Whilst I completely agree with you that class should be cast to the annuls of history, the spin doctors have revived it, polished it up for a new generation, and (very successfully) used it as a political battering ram.

I believe that class, or the perception of class at least, has paid a bigger role in the US and UK elections, and Brexit Referendum, than I've seen in any other elections in my lifetime. When have you ever seen so many references made to 'elites'? And let's not forget the classic, self destructive "basket of deplorables" comment.

For those voters to whom class matters, they've been sold class heroes and had new underclasses developed for them, and that's happened right across the political spectrum. Rarely have I seen such irony as one of my Brexit supporting friends who had a bee in her bonnet over 'elites' yet voted Corbyn because "He's one of us. He's working class like us". The PR guys for him deserve Oscars for selling that idea and getting away with it.
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Old 30.12.2017, 09:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Disastrous interview for Trump with the failing New York Times. No aides present to help him make sense.

Cleverly organized by an unhostile journalist through a mutual contact. Trump doesn't need tough questioning. He can dig his own grave without anyone else's help.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics...chael-schmidt/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...new-york-times
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Old 30.12.2017, 09:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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...But it is. Whilst I completely agree with you that class should be cast to the annuls of history, the spin doctors have revived it, polished it up for a new generation, and (very successfully) used it as a political battering ram.

I believe that class, or the perception of class at least, has paid a bigger role in the US and UK elections, and Brexit Referendum, than I've seen in any other elections in my lifetime. When have you ever seen so many references made to 'elites'? And let's not forget the classic, self destructive "basket of deplorables" comment.

For those voters to whom class matters, they've been sold class heroes and had new underclasses developed for them, and that's happened right across the political spectrum. Rarely have I seen such irony as one of my Brexit supporting friends who had a bee in her bonnet over 'elites' yet voted Corbyn because "He's one of us. He's working class like us". The PR guys for him deserve Oscars for selling that idea and getting away with it.

There is a 'class' as an outdated social theory concept which nobody likes...and then there is a 'class' that many accept as the victimhood life philosophy.
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Old 30.12.2017, 11:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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....seriously, I think this is what a lot of people like, that's why his success, or plenty of other leaders' success.
Every episode of Blue Planet shows creatures in a constant battle between eating and avoiding being eaten. We live in times of unprecedented luxury of resources and time yet our natures will not evolve in our lifetimes.

There‘s always a giant vampire squid out there to bring you down and no matter your status in life you know it to be true. Whether that vampire squid is a burglar, your boss, Goldman Sachs or your Id something‘s keeping you fearful. We‘re tribal for survival.
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Old 30.12.2017, 14:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The sad part is that a large part of the American public applauded and lauded him. A bit like what we see in plenty of other situations....seriously, I think this is what a lot of people like, that's why his success, or plenty of other leaders' success.
Some of us are actually having a huge laugh about this all. Never seen comedy at this level before. It's not so much Trump himself who is funny, but its the reaction of people to him. Particularly those who melt for no reason at all.

I think the closest description or comparison I can come up with is Spinal Tap, except in politics.

He truly is blowing holes through a lot of commonly held bullshit, and those who hold such bullshit sacred get offended. It is very consequential, game-changing, yet profoundly comedic.

It is long overdue.


See here what he does to Washington D.C., which is sitting right behind him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRBsJNdK1t0
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Old 30.12.2017, 15:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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There is a 'class' as an outdated social theory concept which nobody likes...and then there is a 'class' that many accept as the victimhood life philosophy.
Marxists had (and sadly still have) this concept of class, which basically is a codeword for enemy. Hating people is bad and you shouldn't do that, but if this particular enemy is a different class to you, then he's keeping you down and you can hate him for that.

The practical thing about class is that, in contrast to say race or religion, there is no objective test for it. You just have to trust the party leadership and they will tell you who you have to hate today.
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Old 30.12.2017, 18:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Vice President Pence is on holiday in a rented house in Colorado, his neighbours welcomed him with this banner on their shared driveway
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  #10676  
Old 30.12.2017, 19:33
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Who on earth wants to live their lives according to labels and categories somebody else thinks one should belong to? Blue collar, white collar, working class, middle class, whatever. You can be whatever you want to be. Even the president of the USA...lol The whole concept of classes is so outdated and ridiculous. I don't deny it still exists in some people's mind, it's just not what each and everybody pays attention to. Probably that's why some can and do integrate wherever they want, and others - not. But yeah, the classes and the predefined places we should occupy. A lot of things and opinions here make complete sense through these views.

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There is a 'class' as an outdated social theory concept which nobody likes...and then there is a 'class' that many accept as the victimhood life philosophy.
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Marxists had (and sadly still have) this concept of class, which basically is a codeword for enemy. Hating people is bad and you shouldn't do that, but if this particular enemy is a different class to you, then he's keeping you down and you can hate him for that.

The practical thing about class is that, in contrast to say race or religion, there is no objective test for it. You just have to trust the party leadership and they will tell you who you have to hate today.




Marx, Weber, et al would likely agree that this line of thinking stems from a complete denial of social realities by the prosperous bourgeoisie who may not own the means of production but live high on the hog on the backs of the working man/proletariat.


Try going to China and explaining to a factory worker who puts in 18 hour days and lives in squalid conditions that 'you can be whatever you want to be'


While you sip your morning coffee, remind yourself how much of your physical labor went into growing, harvesting, and transporting that coffee. Go tell the smartest coffee-bean harvester that class does not exist - he need not toil in the fields to feed his family, he can be president instead (if he just wants to be and tries hard enough)


You've got to be kidding me.


If there were no such thing as social classes, we'd have achieved the communist vison of a classless society. Something tells me we haven't quite reached that level of equality.


'A recent United Kingdom government study has suggested that a "glass floor" exists in British society which prevents those who are less able, but whom come from wealthier backgrounds, from slipping down the social ladder. This is due to the fact that those from wealthier backgrounds have more opportunities available to them. In fact, the article shows that less able, better-off kids are 35% more likely to become high earners than bright poor kids.[55]' '


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#Weberian
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  #10677  
Old 30.12.2017, 21:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Some of us are actually having a huge laugh about this all. Never seen comedy at this level before. It's not so much Trump himself who is funny, but its the reaction of people to him. Particularly those who melt for no reason at all.

I think the closest description or comparison I can come up with is Spinal Tap, except in politics.

He truly is blowing holes through a lot of commonly held bullshit, and those who hold such bullshit sacred get offended. It is very consequential, game-changing, yet profoundly comedic.

It is long overdue.


See here what he does to Washington D.C., which is sitting right behind him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRBsJNdK1t0
Many years ago Ruby Wax follwed teh Donald for a documentary on the man. He eventually dumped her before filming was complete because she alluded to his sense of humour - particularly about himself - to be completely absent.

Just like every authoritarian, narcissistic sociopath before or since.

But lol, the environment / equality / alternative facts. Who needs Statesmen?

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Old 30.12.2017, 22:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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'A recent United Kingdom government study has suggested that a "glass floor" exists in British society which prevents those who are less able, but whom come from wealthier backgrounds, from slipping down the social ladder. This is due to the fact that those from wealthier backgrounds have more opportunities available to them. In fact, the article shows that less able, better-off kids are 35% more likely to become high earners than bright poor kids.[55]' '


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#Weberian

We may share nearly identical languages, but UK society is quite different from the US society. You have royalty and an aristocracy. We merely have politicians, billionaires and celebrities, many of whom worked their way into their position within their own lifespans.

The application of class constructs in the US is attempted mainly by the left side of the political spectrum, more often in terms of race. The right side of the spectrum tries to conscientiously reject class constructs as the socialist/marxist ploys that they are.

Where you find real classification in the US is in the disparity in wealth and income. But individually, people move between different stratifications of classes.

In the US, you can find well cultivated and educated people who are dirt poor. Just as you can also find some of the most unsophisticated, boring, tasteless and vulgar individuals with the highest net worths.
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Old 30.12.2017, 22:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

A federal court ruled Friday that a high school football player in California can't be forced by his school district to stand during the national anthem before football games

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Meanwhile there is a rumour circulating that the whole FBI Trump campaign Russia collusion investigation started after Papadopoulos told an Australian official that the Russians had emails with damaging information from Hillary.
After the emails were released the Australians informed US officials.

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Old 30.12.2017, 22:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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We may share nearly identical languages, but UK society is quite different from the US society. You have royalty and an aristocracy. We merely have politicians, billionaires and celebrities, many of whom worked their way into their position within their own lifespans.

The application of class constructs in the US is attempted mainly by the left side of the political spectrum, more often in terms of race. The right side of the spectrum tries to conscientiously reject class constructs as the socialist/marxist ploys that they are.

Where you find real classification in the US is in the disparity in wealth and income. But individually, people move between different stratifications of classes.

In the US, you can find well cultivated and educated people who are dirt poor. Just as you can also find some of the most unsophisticated, boring, tasteless and vulgar individuals with the highest net worths.
"individually, people move between different "stratifications" of classes." By changing their wealth and income?
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