Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 71 27.41%
No 188 72.59%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10681  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 2,673
Groaned at 68 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 6,177 Times in 2,889 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
We may share nearly identical languages, but UK society is quite different from the US society. You have royalty and an aristocracy. We merely have politicians, billionaires and celebrities, many of whom worked their way into their position within their own lifespans.
We are... "two nations divided by a common language". As for class, America has more of them and many are harder to break into. You have new money and old money, well connected families and the Mayflower Society amongst others. Even my ex husband's family were infamous in US history, related to 2 US Presidents and had a fairly recent tv series about them. Means nothing...

On both sides of the pond, anyone can have fame, wealth, a comfortable life, influence, even power, but only if they work hard, have aptitude and are able to seize the right opportunities. Don't forget that the Queen was a trained truck mechanic.
Reply With Quote
  #10682  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:08
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,415
Groaned at 151 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 3,821 Times in 1,520 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post

The application of class constructs in the US is attempted mainly by the left side of the political spectrum, more often in terms of race. The right side of the spectrum tries to conscientiously reject class constructs as the socialist/marxist ploys that they are.


.
?


None of the right/conservatives I know would deny the existence of lower/middle/upper class stratifications. Although Marx may have had his ideas about social classes, that doesn't mean anyone who agrees there are social classes is a Marxist.


Quote:
View Post


In the US, you can find well cultivated and educated people who are dirt poor. Just as you can also find some of the most unsophisticated, boring, tasteless and vulgar individuals with the highest net worths.

True, and thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank pilatus1 for this useful post:
  #10683  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:17
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,393
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
? None of the right/conservatives I know would deny the existence of lower/middle/upper class stratifications. Although Marx may have had his ideas about social classes, that doesn't mean anyone who agrees there are social classes is a Marxist.

True, and thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
Basically 3 income buckets of taxpayers based on yearly income. Not some hardcoded classification of a person, and any person can appear in any bucket in any year.
Reply With Quote
  #10684  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:18
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
He's had nearly 90 accomplishments in terms of economy, regulations and judiciary. GDP growth is about 3.5%, and some of the lowest level of unemployment in about two decades. Housing is booming, economic optimism is up, income is higher, military and law enforcement moral is up. With about 11 Obama legacy effects undone, while the consequences of Trump's legacy will carry on for a couple of decades. All in less than a year's work.
Volatility has ended the year at record lows, adding to concerns that complacent investors are sleepwalking into the next crash as stock markets around the world hit new highs.

The VIX Index, a widely-used measure of expectations of future volatility, slipped a further 21pc in 2017, finishing at an end-of-year record low of 10.40. In the past, low volatility has predated some of the biggest market collapses.

Source

I hope this is just scare mongering.
Reply With Quote
  #10685  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:32
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,393
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Volatility has ended the year at record lows, adding to concerns that complacent investors are sleepwalking into the next crash as stock markets around the world hit new highs.

The VIX Index, a widely-used measure of expectations of future volatility, slipped a further 21pc in 2017, finishing at an end-of-year record low of 10.40. In the past, low volatility has predated some of the biggest market collapses.

Source

I hope this is just scare mongering.
Volatility is normal, and there are surely corrections over time and some bubbling taking place. Unpredicatability and corrections is a normal part of market. It is the overall trend lines that are more useful indicators.
Reply With Quote
  #10686  
Old 31.12.2017, 00:35
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,393
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
We are... "two nations divided by a common language". As for class, America has more of them and many are harder to break into. You have new money and old money, well connected families and the Mayflower Society amongst others. Even my ex husband's family were infamous in US history, related to 2 US Presidents and had a fairly recent tv series about them. Means nothing...
Thats is right that it means nothing. Those in the Hamptons probably kiss Jay-Z and Beyonce's ass to get invited to their parties, and Jay-Z was a drug dealer.
Reply With Quote
  #10687  
Old 31.12.2017, 18:11
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Basically 3 income buckets of taxpayers based on yearly income. Not some hardcoded classification of a person, and any person can appear in any bucket in any year.
If it was really as simple as this then poor working class whites would be in the same class as poor working class people of colour.
W. E. B. Dubois published an influential treatise "Black Reconstruction" in1935 where he demonstrated this did not happen and explained why.
I doubt it is any different today?
Reply With Quote
  #10688  
Old 31.12.2017, 19:12
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery, but not the SoT one
Posts: 19,316
Groaned at 347 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 14,147 Times in 8,135 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Palestine recalls US envoy over Trump's Jerusalem announcement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42531102
Reply With Quote
  #10689  
Old 01.01.2018, 14:50
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Trump: 'We'll see' about the leader of North Korea's claims that he has a "nuclear button" on his desk.

Source

Quote:
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The U.S., under my administration, is completely rebuilding its military, and they're spending hundreds of billions of dollars to the newest and finest military equipment anywhere in the world, being built right now. I want peace through strength!
7 Nov 2017
Trump and Kim Jong Un seem to be well matched! They both continually lie
and both about the strength of their military.

Ever noticed how often Trump says 'We'll see' but there is never any follow up; nothing to see!
Reply With Quote
  #10690  
Old 01.01.2018, 15:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kt Zrh
Posts: 5,551
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 8,263 Times in 3,560 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Lots of medical supply manufacturing in Puerto Rico. Unfortunately, rebuilding infrastructure there is woefully lagging.

Something that lots of US hospitals are scrambling to do now is to create substitutes for mini bags - sterile iv bags with premeasured saline used to administer drugs in hospital. Most of those bags were made by Baxter in PR.

So while markets are booming, why isn’t the Trump administration organizing and managing infrastructure recovery in Puerto Rico. Probably because there’s no one there who has the requisite skills. I think the infrastructure of the administration has big holes.

Source:
https://www.wiscontext.org/hurricane...pply-shortages
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #10691  
Old 01.01.2018, 15:34
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,360
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 12,787 Times in 5,981 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
...So while markets are booming, why isn’t the Trump administration organizing and managing infrastructure recovery in Puerto Rico. Probably because there’s no one there who has the requisite skills. I think the infrastructure of the administration has big holes...
And because Trump still thinks Puerto Ricans are not U.S. citizens, and therefore not deserving of "handouts".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #10692  
Old 01.01.2018, 15:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,066
Groaned at 60 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 2,998 Times in 1,664 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
And because Trump still thinks Puerto Ricans are not U.S. citizens, and therefore not deserving of "handouts".
Probably thinks that half of them are drug-smugglers and the other half have AIDS.
And they're all incompetent, compared to him. He's been in construction for decades, he knows how to build a house that doesn't fall over in the first storm (and how to squeeze the last cent out of the (white) tenants...)

That said, I'm not sure: is PR a US-state like... Kansas?

If there's a catastrophe in Kansas, how does stuff get rebuilt there?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #10693  
Old 01.01.2018, 16:43
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,393
Groaned at 544 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 10,130 Times in 5,411 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Probably thinks that half of them are drug-smugglers and the other half have AIDS.
And they're all incompetent, compared to him. He's been in construction for decades, he knows how to build a house that doesn't fall over in the first storm (and how to squeeze the last cent out of the (white) tenants...)

That said, I'm not sure: is PR a US-state like... Kansas?

If there's a catastrophe in Kansas, how does stuff get rebuilt there?

No, PR is not a US State.

The Feds come in for emergencies, but the locals pick up the slack and finish it for themselves, which isn't working out too well for Puerto Rico. The infrastructure was already a mess and fincances wrecked prior to the hurricane.

Puerto Rico does not have electoral votes, but Puerto Ricans can vote if they reside in other states. Democratic operatives are also politicizing the disaster, which is resulting in a finger pointing blame game, and passing up responsibilities.

People in Puerto Rico do not pay federal income tax, and I believe goods manufactured in Puerto Rico face tariffs when imported into the US. There is a certain aspect of having one's cake and eating it too.
__________________
exceptio probat regulam
Reply With Quote
  #10694  
Old 01.01.2018, 16:55
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Probably thinks that half of them are drug-smugglers and the other half have AIDS.
And they're all incompetent, compared to him. He's been in construction for decades, he knows how to build a house that doesn't fall over in the first storm (and how to squeeze the last cent out of the (white) tenants...)

That said, I'm not sure: is PR a US-state like... Kansas?

If there's a catastrophe in Kansas, how does stuff get rebuilt there?
Puerto Tico is an unincorporated U.S. territory which means it belongs to the US, the inhabitants are US citizens but it is not a State.

Residents of Puerto Rico do not have voting representation in the United States Congress, and are not entitled to electoral votes for President.

Due to the current terrible conditions in PR many people are moving to the US mainland which as US citizens they are entitled to do.

Once there they can vote in Congress and Presidential elections. Since Trump gave himself 10 out of 10 for the PR disaster recovery no doubt they will all vote Trump and GOP

After a catastrophe Congress creates one or more disaster recovery Bills to fund repairs.
Currently there is a very large such Bill ($81 Billion) pending for repairs (mostly for Texas Hurricane but some for Florida and island territories like PR) but nobody knows when it will be signed.
Many Texas Congressmen voted against the disaster recovery Bill for New Orleans so not everybody is rushing to sign this Texas bill.
__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work

Last edited by marton; 01.01.2018 at 17:06.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10695  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:02
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
People in Puerto Rico do not pay federal income tax, and I believe goods manufactured in Puerto Rico face tariffs when imported into the US. There is a certain aspect of having one's cake and eating it too.
Not really clearly explained.
Puerto Ricans are required to pay most US federal taxes, with the major exception being that most residents do not have to pay the federal personal income tax.
Residents of Puerto Rico pay pay federal payroll taxes, such as Social Security and Medicare taxes.

Most years Puerto Rico pays over $4 billion into the US Treasury.
Reply With Quote
  #10696  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kt Zrh
Posts: 5,551
Groaned at 31 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 8,263 Times in 3,560 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Drug manufacturing was moved to Puerto Rico because of advantageous tax deals. So I doubt tha American companies face stiff tarrif penalties when sending stuff back to the US.

I don’t think the shortages are politicized. Though sure, lots of stuff is. Hospitals are making up the slack to some extent by creating their own sterile prefills. But someone will pay...higher costs, poorer service in particular areas.

But sure. Finger pointing. I do blame the disorganization of Trump’s admin for this nonsense.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #10697  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:07
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,360
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 12,787 Times in 5,981 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
Probably thinks that half of them are drug-smugglers and the other half have AIDS.
And they're all incompetent, compared to him. He's been in construction for decades, he knows how to build a house that doesn't fall over in the first storm (and how to squeeze the last cent out of the (white) tenants...)

That said, I'm not sure: is PR a US-state like... Kansas?

If there's a catastrophe in Kansas, how does stuff get rebuilt there?
PR is not a state. It's a territory. Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, but they can't vote for president and don't have a congressional representative. They can vote in the party primaries for president.

In principle, the same rebuilding should happen whether it's a territory or state. The federal and local governments are supposed to kick in some money. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) helps coordinate and dole out funds. The National Guard deploys troops to help with logistics and distribution of aid in the immediate aftermath. The Army Corps of Engineers sizes up the infrastructure damage and how to fix it.

It's a bit easier to deal with things in Kansas since it's part of the lower 48 states and it has good infrastructure (roads, electrical grid, etc.). Goods and people can move quickly across state lines. Puerto Rico being an island means that everything has to come by boat or air, which takes more time. The infrastructure for transport on the island itself is not very good. Kansas isn't a fiscal hotbed but PR is bankrupt, which means the island government can't really pay for needed rebuilding unless the feds cover all the costs.

This article is rather biased, but it goes into some of the details of the problems as well as the perceptions of the island: https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...-flights-facts

This article describes another problem that's been revealed by the crisis and will also need to be dealt with: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...rricane-261495

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.01.2018 at 17:23. Reason: added missing word
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #10698  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:16
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,003
Groaned at 300 Times in 259 Posts
Thanked 12,727 Times in 7,004 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
PR is not a state. It's a territory. Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, but they can't vote for president and don't have a congressional representative. They can vote in the party primaries for president.

In principle, the same rebuilding should happen whether it's a territory or state. The federal and local governments are supposed to kick in some money. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) helps coordinate and dole out funds. The National Guard deploys troops to help with logistics and distribution of aid in the immediate aftermath. The Army Corps of Engineers sizes up the infrastructure damage and how to fix it.

It's a bit easier to deal with things in Kansas since it's part of the lower 48 states and it has good infrastructure (roads, electrical grid, etc.). Goods and people can move quickly across state lines. Puerto Rico being an island means that everything has to come by boat or air, which takes more time. The infrastructure for transport on the island itself is not very good. Kansas isn't a fiscal hotbed but PR bankrupt, which means the island government can't really pay for needed rebuilding unless the feds cover all the costs.

This article is rather biased, but it goes into some of the details of the problems as well as the perceptions of the island: https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...-flights-facts

This article describes another problem that's been revealed by the crisis and will also need to be dealt with: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...rricane-261495
From your link
Quote:
Under the Stafford Act, which governs federal response to major disasters, the federal government must treat Puerto Rico like a state.
It is not clear the federal government is fully performing its role to treat Puerto Rico like a state.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10699  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:25
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 8,360
Groaned at 55 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 12,787 Times in 5,981 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post
From your link

It is not clear the federal government is fully performing its role to treat Puerto Rico like a state.
I'm agree. But I'm not sure the folks of PR can do anything about it except complain. In Kansas the residents can call and write congressional representatives, who then lobby for federal funds and help.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #10700  
Old 01.01.2018, 17:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,066
Groaned at 60 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 2,998 Times in 1,664 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Quote:
View Post

This article describes another problem that's been revealed by the crisis and will also need to be dealt with: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...rricane-261495

Jesus Christ.

Just evacuate everybody and make it a National Park.

Now I see why Trump has lost interest in this thing. It's a money pit. Whatever amount of money you pour into it, it's going to disappear.
And even if not, the next hurricane is going to level it again, regardless.

It's like Haiti.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Hillary Clinton run for president again? PanFastic International affairs/politics 159 09.10.2018 02:31
Poll: Will Trump win the 2020 elections? k_and_e International affairs/politics 14 05.06.2018 22:06
A generic "will my salary be good enough" post Larsh Employment 51 12.12.2017 12:51
Will Trump be the next US President? Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 2618 14.11.2016 11:16
Shall I inform my employer that I will be self employed or be a owner of a company? Broth76 Business & entrepreneur 6 09.07.2012 16:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0