The legal basis was they got a search warrant from a judge.

They must have had strong evidence to convince the judge!
Apparently they got the evidence from Special Counsel Mueller, presumably it was not part of the Russian probe so Mueller did not seek the warrant himself.

No it is not illegal to have an agreement - including payment - to keep private matters private. However there might be illegalities around the arrangement like threats of violence or money laundering or....

President Trump’s attorney, Michael Cohen, is being investigated for possible bank fraud and campaign finance violations, The Washington Post reported Monday.

Edit: President Trump on Monday called the FBI raid on his personal attorney Michael Cohen a "disgrace."

Edit: Twitter users resurfaced a 2015 tweet from attorney Michael Cohen about Hillary Clinton going “to prison,” which he tweeted during a Democratic primary debate.

Edit: Seems the FBI raided multiple offices and Cohen's home!

Many Americans (not necessarily people here) believe the election was not “democratic”. On EF, I think it’s more like a giant scab that can’t be ignored. It seems to be the one thing that is reliably updated, which is rather sad.

Contractual agreements which violate the law are automatically nulled and have no legal base. This extends to lawyer-client privileged communications, though a cast iron reason needs to be provided. The fact that it went via a judge means it was clearly considered to be important enough to warrant confiscation of said documents.

In what sense was it not 'democratic'?

Tom

In the sense that the person who got the most votes didn't win the election?

Do you know how democracy is supposed to work?

In the same way Brexit wasn't democratic or something.

Nah, we covered that way back. You can't complain about the rules of the game after the game is over. The Electoral College is the system used in the States, all parties know this, and all the campaigning is done to with that system in mind. Complaining about the result as "undemocratic" just makes you come across as a bad loser.

And being a bad loser is so much worse than so many other things, isn’t it?

Nah, I subscribe to the scab theory. This thread is a scab on the <insert body part here> of EF.

That's not how it works in the US, and for a very good reason.

It the electoral college votes that matter, and they are decided by the popular vote in each state to avoid larger states taking over the whole process, thus providing MORE democracy and stability than in a a system where the president is elected by the popular vote.

Tom

So your vote is worth more if you happen to be in a state with fewer people compared to your electroal college representatives or if there is a chance your state could flip?


Very democratic.

Yes, it is.

Works the same in the US Senate.

And in Switzerland.

Tom

Problem for Trump is that the FBI probably now have copies of many communications between him and Cohen.
Likely some of them will relate to the object of the search and others will not be related so those will remain under lawyer privilege.

The problem is that FBI will have to read every communication to decide if it is covered under lawyer privilege or not; possibly for such an important case the communications will have to be read by several people before a decision can be made.

The FBI cannot use lawyer privileged communications as evidence but the information will remain in people's heads and could then be used consciously or sub consciously in future investigations!

__________________
It is naive to assume my posts are my own work

And in the Australian Senate. Still doesn't make it democratic, though. In fact it simply incites unrest, as we have seen for the past year and a half in the US.

Trump was elected according to the laws of the US. Is that democracy? Whether the electoral college enhances stability and democracy in modern times is open to debate.

There are other issues which impact voting, such as gerrymandering (drawing congressional districts favoring the party in power), voter iD requirements, and the pitiful state of voting machines which do not have backup, for example. And low turnout. Money in politics, media behavior and on and on.

It would be nice if this election caused people to examine these issues critically. Oh well......

Exactly, this is what is exciting Trump so much. He's terrified that a whole lot of muck unrelated to the Russia investigation is going to rise to the surface. He keeps claiming there was no collusion, but the point is that Mueller has a very wide remit to investigate other potential felonies.

I'm sure Trump remembers that Bill Clinton's impeachment was for perjury and obstruction of justice arising from his affair with Monica Lewinsky; nothing to do with Starr's original investigation.

Trump is the most powerful man in the world and has demonstrated he is both vindictive and petty.

He has the "big" nuclear button in his hands.

He could cause the death of many of us!

No wonder this thread is so active?

Voter ID is required here, I see no reason that it should not be required in the US, if anything it is pretty absurd that it is not required in the US.

Tom

What is the ID requirement in CH?

Not so black and white in the US.

There is no standard ID in the US. Lots of people don’t have passports, and drivers licenses aren’t adequate ID.

This might be fitting after the FBI raids yesterday on Trump's lawyer (office, home and hotel suite).

A new one from the comments on YouTube:


MAGA - Mueller ain't going away