Or piles?

Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ.

So agreement alone does not differentiate between deep insight and just parroting the same stuff.

The population of Switzerland is 24% foreign (census 2013)

The population of the UK 12% foreign (census 2011)

Wow, You do love to dish out the stereotypes, don't you?

people who can't stand the shit storm =/= proof that there is a revival of the lexicography of facism.

I don't approve of all the stuff going on for example. But I'm not trying to trace it all to fascism.

Or that all those who don't agree with your view are fascists?

Inflationary applicability of terms?

Sure... but they aren't sending their best people to the UK.

That’s like saying normal people in Nazi germany weren’t really Nazis because they didn’t wear Nazi uniforms. They collectively went along with it all, they might not have physically ganged up on those that didn’t agree and murdered them or forced them into submission, but they were equally complicit.

Btw, in case you can’t understand, which I don’t think you can. The reference to fascism is only partly related to immigration and race, there are many other indicators that are being used at the moment.

You do realize that the definitions of "foreign" in both places differ. The road to CH passport is far from easy. I wouldn't call it racist.

So help me out here - how do you come to your label of "left" in that case?

Bit confused at the reference to fascists, tbh. Where did I use the term fascist?

Just trying to pin down why anyone who raises their head above the parapet to question the more extreme opinions on here about immigration, Trump, Merkel, etc., is instantly shot down as "left", "liberal", sjw, or whatever other label-du-jour happens to come along.

Oh yeah, forgot about the favourite and special "virtue-signalling" label.

Are you talking about Switzerland because I do not recognise it?

Switzerland belongs to both Schengen and FMOP and has 25% foreigners.

Not only does Switzerland not say no to affluent Westerners but the country is also full of Russian oligarchs and their families.

Source

Lol...it is a real treat to listen to an affluent westerner giving me a lecture on fascists. We, non affluent EEs, actually lived that crap. Sell your guilt trip elsewhere.

I know it came out harsh..but. People are coaxing others into attitudes that have nothing to do with past and all to do with now, it is really dangerous I think to try to label your opponent with these schematic accusations. Not everybody who doesn't agree with the solution Merkel tried to force or the left in the US are suggesting, is a racist, nazi or fascist. If we move away from these labels, we will understand eachother better, we can even maybe democraticly brainstorm?

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

You are quite right.

The British census counts all "foreign-born" permanent residents.

The Swiss census tallies by nationality of permanent residents.

So, you have inadvertently made my point even more profound - the 24% in Switzerland are actually foreigners, i.e. do not hold a Swiss passport. The 12% in Britain are the foreign-born permanent residents, so actually many of these 12% are actually now British citizens so the real figure is far lower!

Wow! That's phenomenally presumptive of you.

Some factoids that probably mess with the bigger narrative here:

Mussolini didn't actually think much of the concept of race or racism:

He didn't like capitalism either

He liked Keynes

Source: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

Of course you can also find quotes that contradict these to varying degrees. But let's say the definition is not as clear cut as it may seem. To me it seems there are elements of facism on both sides in this debate, as indeed there are in virtually any political debate. Let's not take out the tar brush too quickly.

Since 1983 you can apply for the UK passsport if you are born there even if your parent isn't a UK citizen. The criteria here are tougher, watch the treads and ovations when one succeeds. Language, exam, community decides based on the level of integration. I wouldn't call it racist. It is not. If people want to control who gets let in the country and under which criteria, it is smart and democratic. It is not racist, and has nothing to do with one's race or ethnic origin. People here vote on everything. To shut up some parts of population and say you have no right to feel protective of your country, is undemocratic. I think race has very little to do with how open people are to changes. Maybe it is behavior..contributions , I don't know, really.

But to argue with people who have all the right to not want changes, that they must accept it, based on some vague guilt-trip and mess caused by incompetent governments decades ago or current ones in the places of conflict, will just reinforce people against the change.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

I was responding to Bluieangel's post. So ask Blueangel why the facist label came into this.

Look, Blueangel even thanked you for that post. So maybe you two can work that out between you?

Another tiresome and sweeping generalization?

What the hell are you chuntering about? This is genuinely like reading a Trump speech. Why do you keep inserting race into your rants, we are talking about nationality.

Newsflash, people born in the UK are considered native born and are not included in the foreigners count.

People here for 50 years who haven't undertaken the citizenship test are still considered foreigners.

I genuinely can't decipher your point.

That seems a good analogy for the argument that not all Leave voters in the EU referendum were racists. The anti-immigration message of the Leave campaign was impossible to ignore, and in the end, supposedly non-racist Leave voters got into the same boat as Britain First, the EDL, the BNP and UKIP. Unless they were living under a rock, they must have known they were doing that. The votes of the people preferring not to think of themselves as racists would have been indistinguishable from those of the racists.

This argument is disingenious.

If you go through the small print of the manifestors of BNP etc, I'm sure you'll find individual statements you would tend to agree with.

Should you change your position just to disagree with them?

Definitely not, but you need to accept that your belief in whatever part of Brexit you liked is stronger than your disagreement with overt racism.

He is also tweeting that the NATO members are and will be paying much more money "only because of me". The only fly in the ointment is NATO officials and members are denying anything has changed on the payment scene since the decisions at the Wales Summit in 2014!!

Ripples about "the Putin summit" continue with even the Wall Street Journal editorial board who are normally Trump supporters publishing "It was a personal and 'national embarrassment'".
Source (behind a pay wall)