Will Trump be a Good President? - Page 767

#**15321** 25.08.2018, 12:40

	Quote:
	"Trump is no politician": yes, Loz. Nail. Head. You want someone to prepare your company's accounts, you hire an accountant. You need heart surgery, you go to a surgeon. You want someone to run a country and be Commander in Chief of its military forces... obviously, among its last few presidents, a failed, multiply bankrupted housing developer would be the best choice. I told you I hadn't even started on his policies, but since you started a list let's hear your justification for ranking Trump the greatest US president of the modern age. I'm sure your opinion would be more objective than a survey of qualified scholars. To remind you, you mentioned: - The economy. On purely objective measures, Obama had far greater success than Trump , sustained over eight years, and most (rational) people accept that Trump has inherited a booming economy from Obama. So you're saying that his great achievement here is not screwing it up. Great going. - North Korea. Actual lol. I guess you don't follow Trump's Twitter. Where is Pompeo today? There is no negotiation table. All Trump has achieved is empowerment of Kim; he has elevated Kim's status at home and among his few allies, strengthening his desperately desired perception as a leader who mixes with the most powerful in the world. How's that denuclearization of the North Korean peninsula going? - Employment. Closely linked to he economy, obviously. Trump is riding on Obama's coattails, and must be hating it, that everybody can see he's getting a free ride. Oh, and how many times has Trump falsely claimed that unemployment among blacks/black youths/etc. is the "lowest ever"? Also, for examples of presidents who had a far greater handle on the economy, see Reagan and Clinton. - Supreme Court selection. Another actual lol. A Supreme Court justice dies, and a Republican president manages to get a Republican nominee through a Republican-controlled Senate to be appointed as his replacement. An incredible achievement. It was quite fun to watch Gorsuch subsequently make several decisions against the government's stance. I truly fail to see how appointing one justice (soon to be two) somehow makes Trump a greater president than all his predecessors, many of whom also appointed Supreme Court justices. - Not invading any countries yet. Seriously?! Yes, Loz, you're right. Trump has succeeded through inaction (although of course, he did state during a briefing that he didn't understand why he shouldn't use nuclear weapons). This is the mark of a truly great president. Of course, his imposition of sanctions and trade barriers against NATO and other allies is also one of the greatest things any president has ever done and is bound to enhance the standing of the United States around the world. - The number of people that have died as a result of his military intervention. I don't know what this number is in the 19 months of Trump's presidency so far. Do.you? I do know that it's far greater than zero, and that Trump has absolutely no clue about foreign policy, being unable even to get the names of other countries right. I see no evidence that he has any plan to solve all the many conflicts in the world in which the United States has chosen to insert itself. Even appointing the renowned expert Jared to sort out the Israel/Palestine problem just doesn't seem to have worked. Since you want a comparison, Reagan is credited with bringing down the Iron Curtain and the break-up of the Soviet Union. That looks a little greater to me than Trump's achievement of... doing nothing. Your ship is sinking, Loz. Pretty soon it'll be just you and the rats left on board.

The ship is sinking, haha. Yes, Trump is the worst President ever, you know, all he's done so far has been worse than:

- The Vietnam war (50,000 US dead)
- The Bay of Pigs invasion
- The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan that's resulted in 7000 plus US dead servicemen and women
- The premature withdrawal of troops that resulted in the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to flourish and exacerbated a civil war in Syria
- The intervention in Libya
- The use of Guantanamo Bay
- ...

YOU are so blinkered that you won't give Trump any credit for anything positive that's happened under his leadership. YOU, like many others on here, just can't see past the man. There is no balance anymore. When you can reconcile how anything that Trump has done is worse than Vietnam, or the extrajudicial renditions, or Iraq then I'll start to pay attention. Until then, your ignorance isn't worth my time.

#**15322** 25.08.2018, 12:43

	Quote:	marton
	I assume this is irony? the number of people that have died as a result of his military intervention; Middle East civilian deaths have soared under Trump bringing North Korea to the negotiating table; Trump calls off high-level North Korea visit by Pompeo not invading any countries yet; Behind the secret U.S. war in Africa Fact-checking Donald Trump's talking points about the economy Finally when you have the majority in Congress appointing Supreme Court people is a rubber stamp job! Edit: Bow to 22yards whose reply was much quicker than mine!

Oh look, marton has another link

#**15323** 25.08.2018, 12:45

	Quote:
	Ah, the 'I was only trolling' defence, good one.

	Quote:
	Yup, Spanky fan, bit late to deny it now the tide is turning.

	Quote:
	Everone flips on Spanky eventually, its ok.

	Quote:
	Guys it's really not worth it, the thread is full of reasons why Spanky is WOAT, I'm not sure if he's willfully ignorant or just doing crap trolling, but the facts will not change the mind of someone who can't understand them, and I doubt he has the character to acknowledge he backed the wrong horse.

Have you even contributed any facts to this thread?

pilatus1 · #**15324** 25.08.2018, 13:04

So supposedly DT knocked up the cleaning lady and has an 'illegitimate' son running around somewhere?

He may even have a son with a black woman- though there was no mention of whether or not she was the aforementioned housekeeper...

popcorn time for sure.

#**15325** 25.08.2018, 13:27

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The ship is sinking, haha. Yes, Trump is the worst President ever, you know, all he's done so far has been worse than: - The Vietnam war (50,000 US dead) - The Bay of Pigs invasion - The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan that's resulted in 7000 plus US dead servicemen and women - The premature withdrawal of troops that resulted in the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to flourish and exacerbated a civil war in Syria - The intervention in Libya - The use of Guantanamo Bay - ...

"...for a sitting President that's only been two years in the job." - Plenty of time.

#**15326** 25.08.2018, 13:30

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The ship is sinking, haha. Yes, Trump is the worst President ever, you know, all he's done so far has been worse than: - The Vietnam war (50,000 US dead) - The Bay of Pigs invasion - The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan that's resulted in 7000 plus US dead servicemen and women - The premature withdrawal of troops that resulted in the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to flourish and exacerbated a civil war in Syria - The intervention in Libya - The use of Guantanamo Bay - ... YOU are so blinkered that you won't give Trump any credit for anything positive that's happened under his leadership. YOU, like many others on here, just can't see past the man. There is no balance anymore. When you can reconcile how anything that Trump has done is worse than Vietnam, or the extrajudicial renditions, or Iraq then I'll start to pay attention. Until then, your ignorance isn't worth my time.

Nice goalpost-moving. Your first two points pre-date the presidents you listed and the Iraq invasion was initiated by the Gulf War, waged by the president you omitted. How's that for ignorance, eh?

Otherwise, you've made a laundry list of foreign policy actions that don't sit well with you. I agree, America's done a lot of bad stuff over the decades. Not knowing what to do and being paralyzed with indecision does not make Trump a great president.

More importantly, you've said nothing about any of Trump's actions (or lack thereof) in any other area. I gave you a decent list; where's your response?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oh look, marton has another link

Annoying, isn't it, how he backs up assertions with fact? It'd be great if you could try that sometime.

marton · #**15327** 25.08.2018, 13:37

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oh look, marton has another link

Must be very comforting to have an alternative world.

I will tip toe away and leave you to enjoy it

#**15328** 25.08.2018, 14:26

	Quote:
	Nice goalpost-moving. Your first two points pre-date the presidents you listed and the Iraq invasion was initiated by the Gulf War, waged by the president you omitted. How's that for ignorance, eh?

Me moving the goalposts? I think you'll find that's you. Let's go back and look at what I wrote shall we?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Looking at his record so far, you can't say that he's been a particularly bad or a particularly good President.

	Quote:
	More importantly, you've said nothing about any of Trump's actions (or lack thereof) in any other area. I gave you a decent list; where's your response?

I haven't done so because there's no point. And here's why:

	Quote:
	"...for a sitting President that's only been two years in the job." - Plenty of time.

This is typical Trump hater half-witted logic. And there's no point in arguing it because you cannot use reason to remove someone from a place in which reason didn't take them to.

An example:
Trump's doing well on the economy - "well the economy was already in a good shape before he took office."
Fair enough, but then you cannot say, as marton has pointed out, that deaths have soared in the Middle East thanks to Trump, because the US was already involved in the conflict there before he took office. It's one or the other.

Another example: Trump's Supreme Court choice. This is widely accepted, even amongst Trump's critics, to have been a victory for him. Even this small success cannot be acknowledged because you hate Trump so much.

#**15329** 25.08.2018, 14:58

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Me moving the goalposts? I think you'll find that's you. Let's go back and look at what I wrote shall we? I haven't done so because there's no point. And here's why: This is typical Trump hater half-witted logic.

Not really. You list the follies of a series of presidents all of whom served longer than Trump - even the one who was shot - and then ask how Trump is worse after a year and a half? - Plenty of time.

#**15330** 25.08.2018, 15:02

	Quote:
	Not really. You list the follies of a series of presidents all of whom served longer than Trump - even the one who was shot - and then ask how Trump is worse after a year and a half? - Plenty of time.

You cannot blame someone for something they’ve not done yet, even you get that surely? And going by what you’ve just written, you cannot judge Trump’s performance (I.e. say he’s the worst president EVER) until he’s finished his term.

#**15331** 25.08.2018, 15:22

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You cannot blame someone for something they’ve not done yet, even you get that surely? And going by what you’ve just written, you cannot judge Trump’s performance (I.e. say he’s the worst president EVER) until he’s finished his term.

Actually, the voters need to make a judgement call BEFORE then if they want or don't want him back for a second term.

The guy is mired in controversy and scandal, and the smell of bullshit around him is clouding anything that might show him in a good light.

Yes, he's giving satirists and comedians endless material which is funny or cringeworthy or whatever BUT the level of legal action around him is "unpresidented" (pardon the pun).

He's banging on about a witchhunt and deflecting like a maniac but the intensity of the investigations wouldn't be happening if it was just because someone "hates" him.

I think the main thrust of the wider audience is not so much "hatred" rather the novelty value of having a crowing and narcissistic leadership you would normally see in some backward dictatorship being played out in one of the richest and most powerful nations on earth. At least that's how I see it.

Even his North Korea project for peace seems to have waned and died now he's cancelled Pompeo's visit. OK, so he got some unidentified bones and dog tags back after his bells and whistles meeting earlier in the summer but apart from being a bit of comfort for the affected families it was nothing more than the proverbial dog and pony show.

marton · #**15332** 25.08.2018, 17:45

	Quote:
	Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump Michaels Cohen’s attorney clarified the record, saying his client does not know if President Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting (out of which came nothing!). The answer is that I did NOT know about the meeting. Just another phony story by the Fake News Media!

What Michaels Cohen’s attorney actually said

	Quote:
	Thursday, Davis, speaking on the record, apologized for confirming something he did not know to be true. “I regret that I wasn’t clear enough to The Post. I should have been more clear. I could not independently confirm the information in the CNN story,” he said. “I’m sorry that I left that impression. I wasn’t at the meeting. The only person who could confirm that information is my client.”

Source

This falls short of Trump's claim he was vindicated nor is the story confirmed; the story is still open until Cohen makes a definitive statement.

Meanwhile Trump continues to publicly attack his own Cabinet selection

	Quote:
	Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump Jeff Sessions said he wouldn’t allow politics to influence him only because he doesn’t understand what is happening underneath his command position. Highly conflicted Bob Mueller and his gang of 17 Angry Dems are having a field day as real corruption goes untouched. No Collusion!

marton · #**15333** 25.08.2018, 17:56

	Quote:
	A federal judge on Saturday struck down several key provisions in President Trump's executive orders signed earlier this year that made it easier to fire federal workers.

Source

I do not understand why Trump does not bother to get proper legal advice so making his Executive Orders watertight?

3Wishes · #**15334** 25.08.2018, 18:22

Keep in mind that while Loz's posts might boggle the minds of many members on EF, there are millions of Americans who agree with him. Although it grates my nerves sometimes, his POV is important to hear if for no other reason than to know what Trump supporters are thinking.

Trump supporters are fiercely loyal. Every Trump supporter I know can't be swayed. They like his brash tactics and don't care that he's morally bankrupt. Heck, they don't care that his businesses went bankrupt, because he was able to use the system to get out of his debts. If only the little guy could do the same...

They think of his chaos as "flexibility". They don't care if he's had affairs or has a dozen illegitimate children. They don't even care if his campaign coordinated with Russia. As long as the stock market is booming and he's saying the right words about trade deficits and tax cuts, they will eat it up.

Oh, how times have changed, eh? Clinton was impeached for having an affair and lying about it under oath. Why is there no consequence for Trump yet?

Well, there are a few big differences. Trump clearly has had affairs and made payoffs to hide them, but that was before he was elected. He lies all the time. Moral standards ain't what they used to be. He's not been put under oath (yet) and his party controls both houses of Congress.

The Dems think that this Trump 25-ring circus is going to lead them to a "Blue Wave" in November. I'm not totally convinced. Sitting presidents often lose Congressional seats in the mid-terms, so some seat losses would be expected whether Trump was president or say, Rubio. Both parties have chosen some of the more extreme candidates in primaries, which means that the general election will come down to turnout and perhaps who's least extreme/more palatable to the swing voter. Swing voters often are not affiliated with a particular party or they don't feel loyal to a particular party even though registered with one.

Buckle your belts, keep your arms and legs inside, and hang on for the ride, folks.

#**15335** 25.08.2018, 18:36

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You cannot blame someone for something they’ve not done yet, even you get that surely? And going by what you’ve just written, you cannot judge Trump’s performance (I.e. say he’s the worst president EVER) until he’s finished his term.

You are right, there is probably much much worse to come.

k_and_e · #**15336** 25.08.2018, 18:46

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Keep in mind that while Loz's posts might boggle the minds of many members on EF, there are millions of Americans who agree with him. Although it grates my nerves sometimes, his POV is important to hear if for no other reason than to know what Trump supporters are thinking. Trump supporters are fiercely loyal. Every Trump supporter I know can't be swayed. They like his brash tactics and don't care that he's morally bankrupt. Heck, they don't care that his businesses went bankrupt, because he was able to use the system to get out of his debts. If only the little guy could do the same... They think of his chaos as "flexibility". They don't care if he's had affairs or has a dozen illegitimate children. They don't even care if his campaign coordinated with Russia. As long as the stock market is booming and he's saying the right words about trade deficits and tax cuts, they will eat it up.

Sorry, but i find this a bit belittling. What I see in this thread is that both Trump supporters only see the positive and Trump haters only see the negative.

My opinion: this is what the people wanted. The Democrats are to blame here because they put a candidate forward that was so unpopular that she could be beaten by Trump.

The good thing about Trump is that he seems to make people more interested in politics and that something interesting happens every day.

And of course we should congratulate Marton. Only with his post count in this thread, he would be a forum legend.

marton · #**15337** 25.08.2018, 19:12

@3Wishes

I agree except I doubt many of his supporters care if the stock market is booming or not!
Name: trumpStocks.jpg
Views: 208
Size: 101.2 KB

I agree the key to the next elections are the swing voters. Probably many people who voted for Trump had little to lose .

People keep saying Hillary was unpopular but she did win the popular vote! I agree it is a pity the Dems did not field a better candidate and that they did not figure out the best way to manage the Electoral College votes.

3Wishes · #**15338** 25.08.2018, 19:17

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Sorry, but i find this a bit belittling. What I see in this thread is that both Trump supporters only see the positive and Trump haters only see the negative...

Sorry about that - it's not meant to be belittling to anyone, it's meant to raise a point.

A number of the posts in the past few pages have been directed at Loz and his way of thinking/posting as if he should just shut up and leave. I felt it was important to point out that while he might bug some EF members and maybe some even think he's nuts, he's not alone in his views by a long shot. Or maybe he's just trolling for giggles.

In any case, it's important for "haters" as you call them to remember that there are many, many supporters. Brand them stupid or ignorant or whatever label you want, they're a large part of the electorate and they won't disappear or stop voting just because "haters" don't like them.

And yes, Trump seems to be a very polarizing figure. People seem to fall mostly into the haters and lovers camps with almost no middle ground.

omtatsat · #**15339** 25.08.2018, 19:21

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses...55026781650944

#**15340** 25.08.2018, 20:29

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Keep in mind that while Loz's posts might boggle the minds of many members on EF, there are millions of Americans who agree with him. Although it grates my nerves sometimes, his POV is important to hear if for no other reason than to know what Trump supporters are thinking.

Erm, excuse me? What is it about about reading Trump's name that results in perfectly normal people to lose all capability for reading comprehension? But I'm bored of going over it now, pointing out hypocrisy, or that Trump isn't the worst President ever, or even that things aren't that bad under him obviously isn't working. So how about y'all read what I posted shortly before the election in 2016, and you'll see my opinion hasn't changed since then, in fact, everything is happening virtually word for word as I predicted. Now can you all please STFU on the matter?

p.s. as an aside, I also posted this, which I'd have placed that bet