The amount of times Marton has been rage-posting on this thread is uncountable.

A quick search on "Trump University" will show that "University" was used illegally, and that Trump had thousands of hopeful students effectively defrauded.

That alone should tell more than enough about his moral standards.

No, worst is 10 years if they pull the trigger after January 20, 2019. (see 22. Amendment https://www.senate.gov/civics/consti...nstitution.htm)

Yes, I know. My point was that if they pull the trigger before 20 January next year, Pence would be limited to 6 years. Maximum 6.25 years if they pull the trigger this month.

But it's all pie in the sky, unfortunately. Nobody has the guts.

So is the "deep state" still just a conspiracy theory?

Let me save you all some time as someone from this country and intimately familiar with it's politics.

Every president is just a showman and public figure to distract the public, and not one of them have an ounce of morality, or personality, besides what they are paid to say and have. It's all a sham. Only the most base and ignorant of Americans still think their vote, or the candidates they're allowed to vote for, actually mean anything.

Most people I know in the US don't even bother voting anymore because they know it's a sadistic joke and charade that is beyond insulting to the rest of us.

It's been this way for quite a good many years.

Trump is a cantankerous old-world relic of greed and monetary industrialism, much like most of the lineup of current supposed world leaders, with no sense of ethics or actual reality at all. A million of him couldn't produce a single capable idea that would actually be worthy of any leadership position to any group of people.

Why people believe in anyone who is obviously incapable of empirical reason and is polluted with uninformed bias and bigotry, is beyond me. I can't be so gullible.

Trump's IQ is so stupendously in the negative figures, it amazes me his brain even remembers to tell his body to breathe. The fact that someone like him even became president, is a sign they are running out of puppets, or just a testament to the gullibility of the mainstream American public.

No president, ever, has had an ounce of morality? That sounds very rational, objective and unbiased. Not.

The individuals resisting him highlighted in Woodward's book and probably the anonymous "senior white house official" are members of Trump's appointed staff. Trump nominated Rod Rosenstein to be Deputy Attorney General, who is the individual that started the Mueller investigation.

Forget the deep state, it's Trump's own staff resisting him.

Sounds like a deep state.

Indeed. While I might agree with some of your post, i will also suggest that you chill on the know-it-all arrogance. You think you’re the only US citizen here with some “deep” understanding of the political system? You’re not.

The reasoning is simple from a public figure perspective. The view is based on, as I stated, a president. If you ever let your vote or policies be influenced by money, greed, or biased sources, then your own morality is compromised and how can people trust you? How can you claim moral ground as a leader? You can't. And therefore, regardless of anything you do, your decisions are compromised from the beginning.

Even if you affect what can be considered a moral change, it is not based on morality but others factors. Thus, negating morality from effectively playing any part in the equation. It then becomes a byproduct rather than a causation.

Thomas Jefferson is a man of whom I am remarkably fond. However, even he had to curve his views, and negate morality to satisfy the foolishness of other forefathers. His original draft of the constitution, and aspects of the bill of rights, actually fully abolished slavery, instituted a first draft of civil rights and liberties, and gave women more equal rights. However, many others would not agree to it, so he had to cave in with popular opinion.

Was Thomas Jefferson a moral man? Absolutely. Was he a moral president? Absolutely not. As his morality was curtailed by other influences regardless of his personal aspirations, and I think every president understands this coming into office. That is the reality. Failure to act on morality itself, is a negation of it as a principle in a leadership position.

It's not arrogance, it's empiricism. Trust me, I highly wish it were not the reality.

My line of thinking is that you gentlemen, and ladies respectively, have far better things to do with your precious time then be thinking about such semantics, and especially a complete fool like Trump.

However, perhaps it is better if I stay out of these discussions, and let you fellows to your business. I will do so in the future.

Whatever. You should do what you want. Just don’t assume that we’re all asleep and incapable of empirical thought- that was my only point. Obviously i’m cranky and sensitive to shit like that.

Who knows....you might add some amusement to this bloated thread.

I realize that was an interpretation of how I opened my initial diatribe, so I should clarify my intentions a little better. I apologize that it came across that way.

I sincerely hope not. Trump might be nuts, but as the op-ed shows there are competent people around trying to do the right thing. At this point in time, I feel that removing Trump from office using the 25th is a very bad idea. It would only reinforce the notion of a deep state conspiracy that he touts, and further divide the country. Not only that but so long as the Rs are in control it's not going to happen. Even impeachment after committing crimes is very, very unlikely at this stage.

The way forward is not pretty. Trump and his supporters fully believe the conspiracy theory. If the Dems take one or both houses of Congress in November, this will tell Trump supporters they're right, it's all a set-up. Even "haters" will think that they were right, because the tide changed. No one really wins.

Even if Trump were to die of natural causes tomorrow, the conspiracy theorists would say he's been poisoned or something, and any report stating otherwise would be fake news. And we'd get Pence.

These are individuals put in place by Trump and could be removed by Trump. It's his managerial incompetence that deters him, not the "deep state" which typically refers to unelected civil servants (e.g. intelligence agencies, police, administrative agencies, etc.) who are unresponsive to elected officials.

I want to make sure I understand this...if one or both houses go blue, you’re saying no one wins because a bunch of delusional Trump supporters will think it;s a set up. So you’re hoping for status quo?

The one exception is Vice President Pence, who actually can't be fired by Trump. I bring this up because there's an amusing twitter theory that Pence is the anonymous author because he frequently uses the word "lodestar": https://twitter.com/danbl00m/status/1037428190166347776

LOL, I hope it is him and Trump figures it out.

Video of Pence saying lodestar 8 times over the last 17 years:
https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/sta...71336464461824

New York Times confirms far-right's 'deep state' boogeyman is real in a boost to conspiracy theorists

It confirms there is resistance in his administration to his administration, not that it's in the "deep state". But whatever, I'm done pointing out the distinction. If you want to ignore the meaning of the term, so be it.