Will Trump be a Good President? - Page 825

Urs Max · #**16481** 15.10.2018, 14:46

	Quote:
	Be nice. She's the most bullied person in the world.

Trump's the best POTUS
Melania's the most bullied FLOTUS
Ivanka would be the best ambassador to the UN

And they even do their jobs for free!

This family of superheroes just can't help themselves.

We should be most thankful for the last.

marton · #**16482** 15.10.2018, 16:59

President Trump on Monday denied that he offered Sen. Elizabeth Warren $1 million to take a test proving her Native American heritage, even though he did just that.

	Quote:
	During a campaign rally on July 5, Trump taunted Warren for her claims of Native American ancestry, a staple of his campaign stump speeches. "I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian," Trump said at the time. "I have a feeling she will say 'no.' " In a series of tweets on Monday, Warren called on Trump to pay the $1 million to charity.

Source

Meanwhile in the "clutching at straws" department.

	Quote:
	White House counselor Kellyanne Conway on Monday dismissed Sen. Elizabeth Warren's (D-Mass.) DNA test revealing her Native American ancestry, calling it "junk science."

Source

What a bunch of poor losers!

st2lemans · #**16483** 15.10.2018, 17:06

	Quote:	marton
	President Trump on Monday denied that he offered Sen. Elizabeth Warren $1 million to take a test proving her Native American heritage, even though he did just that. Source Meanwhile in the "clutching at straws" department. Source What a bunch of poor losers!

" “the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor,” likely 6–10 generations ago."

"Strongly supports..."

6-10 generations ago, i.e. 0.1-1%.

Tom

#**16484** 15.10.2018, 17:12

What would you like "Ancestry" to mean, Tom?

st2lemans · #**16485** 15.10.2018, 17:18

	Quote:
	What would you like "Ancestry" to mean, Tom?

""I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian," Trump said at the time. "

Having 0.1-1.0% Indian ancestry does not make one an Indian.

Were that the case, most blacks in the US could claim to be white.

Tom

#**16486** 15.10.2018, 17:19

No, it means an ancestor of yours was Indian. Thus you have Indian ancestry. Pay up.

amogles · #**16487** 15.10.2018, 17:25

	Quote:	st2lemans
	""I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian," Trump said at the time. " Having 0.1-1.0% Indian ancestry does not make one an Indian. Were that the case, most blacks in the US could claim to be white. Tom

and 70% of Europe's population could claim to be Attilla the Hun.

curley · #**16488** 15.10.2018, 17:25

	Quote:	marton
	President Trump on Monday denied that he offered Sen. Elizabeth Warren $1 million to take a test proving her Native American heritage, even though he did just that. Source Meanwhile in the "clutching at straws" department. Source What a bunch of poor losers!

He probably meant to pay it to Trump foundation. They might be blocked accepting donations at the moment?

Junk-science. I love it! This has a chance of becoming the word of 2018!

	Quote:	st2lemans
	" “the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor,” likely 6–10 generations ago." "Strongly supports..." 6-10 generations ago, i.e. 0.1-1%. Tom

Well, I think the EF community knows the ancestral blood-parts of your wife back for about 25 generations by now, no?

#**16489** 15.10.2018, 17:31

	Quote:	amogles
	and 70% of Europe's population could claim to be Attilla the Hun.

They couldn't claim to be him, but descended from him, sure. In the same way you probably can't claim to be primordial soup, but descended from there.

The usual favourite (due to average generations / maths) is that everyone living in Europe is descended from Charlemagne.

amogles · #**16490** 15.10.2018, 18:03

	Quote:
	They couldn't claim to be him, but descended from him, sure. In the same way you probably can't claim to be primordial soup, but descended from there. The usual favourite (due to average generations / maths) is that everyone living in Europe is descended from Charlemagne.

It was a tongue in cheeck answer to Warren's claim to be Indian.

It is a question of debate whether having distant Indian ancestors makes somebody an Indian. Or whether you need to have stromger links and cultural exposure than that.

If you go to a typical Indian reservation these days, the people you meet there don't for the most part look one bit Indian and probably don't speak very much of their traditional language either. Such has been the degree of intermariage with outsiders and cultural erosion over the generations. But by virtue of still living on Indian land (however you chose to define that) and partaking in some form of traditional cultural activities and being part of some sort of tradition and historic continuity (again, however you chose to define that) suffices to make them count as Indian in the eyes of most people. Themselves included.

So I suppose you get to pick your own definition depending on whether or not you want it to be true.

marton · #**16491** 15.10.2018, 19:54

	Quote:	st2lemans
	""I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian," Trump said at the time. " Having 0.1-1.0% Indian ancestry does not make one an Indian. Were that the case, most blacks in the US could claim to be white. Tom

But Trump is not claiming the test is not valid.
He is claiming he never made the bet despite the video evidence which makes him a welcher.

Stop trying to move the goalposts!

marton · #**16492** 15.10.2018, 20:00

	Quote:	amogles
	It was a tongue in cheeck answer to Warren's claim to be Indian. It is a question of debate whether having distant Indian ancestors makes somebody an Indian. Or whether you need to have stromger links and cultural exposure than that. If you go to a typical Indian reservation these days, the people you meet there don't for the most part look one bit Indian and probably don't speak very much of their traditional language either. Such has been the degree of intermariage with outsiders and cultural erosion over the generations. But by virtue of still living on Indian land (however you chose to define that) and partaking in some form of traditional cultural activities and being part of some sort of tradition and historic continuity (again, however you chose to define that) suffices to make them count as Indian in the eyes of most people. Themselves included. So I suppose you get to pick your own definition depending on whether or not you want it to be true.

Warren never claimed to be an Indian, she claimed Native American heritage.

She would have to be a sandwich short of a picnic to claim to be an Indian when neither parents nor grandparents were fully paid up card carrying members of a Native American tribe!

Stop trying to move the goalposts

#**16493** 15.10.2018, 20:59

	Quote:	amogles
	It was a tongue in cheeck answer to Warren's claim to be Indian.

If you say so, it looked more like a fundamental misunderstanding of how genetics (or humour!) works, but I'll take you at your word.

Trump also welched on his bet to pay $5m for Obama's birth certificate. And to lots of contractors, and, and and. Why are we surprised any more?

3Wishes · #**16494** 15.10.2018, 22:03

	Quote:	amogles
	...So I suppose you get to pick your own definition depending on whether or not you want it to be true.

How many Native Americans do you know well, and how many reservations have you visited recently?

I find some of your post to be a bit uninformed.

Warren has Native American ancestry, even if she's not connected to an actual tribe and running around in cowhide dresses. I have blood in my veins from a place I've never visited, but it's still there and I'm no less of that ancestry.

Now, should she be using that 6-10 generations back as a political brownie point? I don't think so and for the most part I don't think she has. Trump is the one that makes a big deal of it and has insulted Warren and the Native American community with his Pocahontas statements.

What's interesting is that for all the fuss people make about the name-calling and negativity surrounding Trump, his tactic is effective. Negative ads have been proven to work and Trump takes it to a whole new level.

marton · #**16495** 15.10.2018, 22:43

	Quote:	amogles
	and 70% of Europe's population could claim to be descended from Attilla the Hun.

ftfy

Just underlines how dumb Trump was to bet a million on something where the odds were so much against him

amogles · #**16496** 15.10.2018, 23:25

	Quote:	marton
	Stop trying to move the goalposts

What goalposts?

Are you arguing with yourself again?

I just made a simple statement. Goalposts don't come into it guv.

#**16497** 15.10.2018, 23:31

Complete quote for context:

	Quote:
	We will take that little kit, but we have to do it gently. Because we’re in the #MeToo generation so we have to be very gentle. And we will very gently take that kit and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn’t injure her arm even though it only weighs probably two ounces. And we will say: I will give you a million dollars, paid for by Trump, to your favorite charity, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.

#**16498** 16.10.2018, 00:03

... and an indigenous viewpoint, if anyone cares: https://wakelet.com/wake/57e215e9-35...7-a9d844bb504c

Chemmie · #**16499** 16.10.2018, 08:51

	Quote:
	Let’s say I’m debating Pocahontas, I promise you I’ll do this: I will take, you know, those little [ancestry] kits they sell on television for $2…I’m going to get one of those little kits, and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims that she is of Indian heritage because her mother said she has high cheekbones — that’s her only evidence, that her mother said she had high cheekbones — we will take that little kit…and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn’t hit her and injure her arm, even thought it only weighs probably two ounces. But we have to do it gently, because we’re in the #MeToo generation — so we have to be very gentle…And we will say, ‘I will give you $1 million to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.’ And we’ll see what she does. I have a feeling she will say no, but we will hold it for the debates.

Reading the comment, and knowing Trump's style, I wouldn't call this a promise to pay or an official bet. It's a hypothetical.

In all politics (including those to are calling for him to pay), it's all sound bits and competition to devalue, and discredit the others.

Personally I think it worked, I definitely think Warren looks like a fool for claiming to be Cherokee. She was scamming the system to get an advantage at the costs of Cherokee people who are truly and systematically disadvantaged.

As for Trump, well I don't expect much more from him.

marton · #**16500** 16.10.2018, 09:08

	Quote:	Chemmie
	Reading the comment, and knowing Trump's style, I wouldn't call this a promise to pay or an official bet. It's a hypothetical. In all politics (including those to are calling for him to pay), it's all sound bits and competition to devalue, and discredit the others. Personally I think it worked, I definitely think Warren looks like a fool for claiming to be Cherokee. She was scamming the system to get an advantage at the costs of Cherokee people who are truly and systematically disadvantaged. As for Trump, well I don't expect much more from him.

"She was scamming the system to get an advantage " What advantage?