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marton · #**16561** 16.10.2018, 21:23

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Nope: "In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, *that her claim to Native American ethnicity* was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman. " Whether it made a difference or not, SHE STLL CLAIMED IT! Tom

She claimed it later

Think of a clock?

Lunchtime is at 12 midday.

Afternoon tea is at 4pm, you enjoy that after lunch - not before.

#**16562** 16.10.2018, 21:27

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Nope: "In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, *that her claim to Native American ethnicity* was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman. " Whether it made a difference or not, SHE STLL CLAIMED IT! Tom

Not really, as Terri and others have claimed it helped her professionally, then it has been proven they fibbed and that it wasn't even considered during the said job applications. That's the embarrassing part, trying to make someone else looking foolish whilst being proven to be a fool yourself.

#**16563** 16.10.2018, 21:47

	Quote:	marton
	Actually the Boston Globe fact checking article here completely destroys your false claims so no need for me to add anything.

Your link did not work Marton but here is another link via Snoopes:

The legitimacy of Warren’s claims to Native American heritage has certainly been challenged by many critics, and it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member. But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her:

Perhaps you need to review your facts???

#**16564** 16.10.2018, 21:50

There is no specific "proof" that she benefited professionally...but please do the math! Why would she change her ethnic background if not to benefit?

marton · #**16565** 16.10.2018, 21:52

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Indeed. Generally, it means being at least 1/32 (5th generation max) Indian blood. Native Americans will also generally insist that you have a know ancestor. "My great great great grandmother claims that she screwed some Indian dude 400 years ago" doesn't quite cut it. I also have high cheekbones, and am from New England, maybe granny screwed one of MY ancestors! Tom

Not true for the Cherokee, they have no minimum blood (quantum) requirement.

From the same source, strangely many official Cherokees are of African American descent!
This is due to the number of freed slaves who joined the Cherokee Nation. There was some resistance but after various legal actions they were eventually fully accepted; they were known as the Cherokee Freedmen.
No wonder DNA testing is complex

If Tom has any freed slaves in his ancestry then maybe he really is Cherokee!!

#**16566** 16.10.2018, 21:53

	Quote:
	Not really, as Terri and others have claimed it helped her professionally, then it has been proven they fibbed and that it wasn't even considered during the said job applications. That's the embarrassing part, trying to make someone else looking foolish whilst being proven to be a fool yourself.

Sorry STIRB, but how exactly do you know that her "supposed" ethnic background was not a consideration in her employment by both UPenn and Harvard? Were you on the hiring committee at both schools?

marton · #**16567** 16.10.2018, 21:57

	Quote:	terrifisch
	Your link did not work Marton but here is another link via Snoopes: The legitimacy of Warren’s claims to Native American heritage has certainly been challenged by many critics, and it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member. But specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking. Warren denied applying for special consideration as a person of Native American heritage during her career, and when the matter was examined in 2012 in response to Brown’s claims, people with whom Warren had worked similarly denied her ancestral background’s factoring into the professional opportunities afforded her: Perhaps you need to review your facts???

Link works fine for me, both in the original and in your quote.

No need to review my facts, I stay with them as in your quote above "specific evidence that she gained her position at Harvard (at least in part) through her claims to Native American heritage is lacking".

marton · #**16568** 16.10.2018, 22:00

	Quote:	terrifisch
	Sorry STIRB, but how exactly do you know that her "supposed" ethnic background was not a consideration in her employment by both UPenn and Harvard? Were you on the hiring committee at both schools?

Because she only claimed her "supposed" ethnic background some years after her employment by both UPenn and Harvard

Maybe the review committees had a time machine to look at her future claims?

#**16569** 16.10.2018, 22:01

For the record, the Boston Globe got the math wrong...So why would I believe their statement regarding the other references that Warren received her law school employments but they just happened overlooked her ethnicity. How naive are you exactly??

#**16570** 16.10.2018, 22:08

	Quote:
	“Non-Native people need to recognize their own limitations and that we, native people, are experts on our own communities. When they argue against us from a place of ignorance, they are actually dismissing us and disappearing us.”

https://thinkprogress.org/elizabeth-...-c1ec6c91b696/

greenmount · #**16571** 16.10.2018, 22:10

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	Painting of Trump among past presidents seen at White House

I guess this is typical for how Trump regards himself - grand, luminous, beautiful, compared to the other presidents. The other ones are somehow pale figures that only preceded the light that was to come....I think it's funny, although not a totally bad painting - artistically. I'm sure it's enormous in size too.

#**16572** 16.10.2018, 22:10

Fact: Warren listed herself as a minority teacher at both UPENN and Harvard. Why exactly? Answer that Marton as I am curious... She was caucasian and she changed ethnicity ..WHY? If it did not suit her?? Of course she benefited! Maybe it would not suit one living in the UK but believe me, it does in the US...

#**16573** 16.10.2018, 22:11

	Quote:	marton
	Because she only claimed her "supposed" ethnic background some years after her employment by both UPenn and Harvard Maybe the review committees had a time machine to look at her future claims?

	Quote:
	US Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren ... was listed as a minority professor in American law school directories for nine years before she landed at Harvard, documents show. The Association of American Law Schools desk book, a directory of law professors from participating schools, includes Warren among the minority law professors listed, beginning in 1986 and continuing through 1995. The years include time she spent teaching at the University of Texas and the University of Pennsylvania, before she joined the faculty at Harvard Law.

http://archive.boston.com/news/local...e_80s_and_90s/

marton · #**16574** 16.10.2018, 22:12

	Quote:	terrifisch
	For the record, the Boston Globe got the math wrong...So why would I believe their statement regarding the other references that Warren received her law school employments but they just happened overlooked her ethnicity. How naive are you exactly??

The math is not relevant, the Cherokee have no minimum blood (quantum) requirement.

marton · #**16575** 16.10.2018, 22:15

	Quote:	greenmount
	I guess this is typical for how Trump regards himself - grand, luminous, beautiful, compared to the other presidents. The other ones are somehow pale figures that only preceded the light that was to come....I think it's funny, although not a totally bad painting - artistically. I'm sure it's enormous in size too.

Trump is desperate to be "accepted". he always feels he is on the outside looking in ;(

#**16576** 16.10.2018, 22:17

	Quote:	marton
	The math is not relevant, the Cherokee have no minimum blood (quantum) requirement.

Wow! I gather you are naive and believe your own narrative! Go for it Marton

Deflection is a great resource..PS..Trump does it often!

greenmount · #**16577** 16.10.2018, 22:21

	Quote:	marton
	Trump is desperate to be "accepted". he always feels he is on the outside looking in ;(

You might be onto something here.....but I can't understand the feeling though. As if white (as in of Anglo-Saxon and German apparently... heritage), heterosexual, rich American males are "on the outside" or something. Any explanation for that? (from our armchair psychologists wisdom..

)

#**16578** 16.10.2018, 22:24

This has been discussed at great length by psychiatrists and psychologists.

#**16579** 16.10.2018, 22:36

... and finally, from as close to the horse's mouth as we're ever going to get, an article from the Harvard Crimson magazine from 1996:

	Quote:
	Of 71 current Law School professors and assistant professors, 11 are women, five are black, one is Native American and one is Hispanic, said Mike Chmura, spokesperson for the Law School. Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said Professor of Law Elizabeth Warren is Native American.

Now, where on earth could Mr Chmura have possibly got that idea?

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1...ing-at-hls-pa/

#**16580** 16.10.2018, 22:42

	Quote:	greenmount
	You might be onto something here.....but I can't understand the feeling though. As if white (as in of Anglo-Saxon and German apparently... heritage), heterosexual, rich American males are "on the outside" or something. Any explanation for that? (from our armchair psychologists wisdom.. )

Well, you can't get much more minority than the "one percent", can you?