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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.16%
No 236 72.84%
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  #16841  
Old 29.10.2018, 16:52
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So Trump, who never says anything against Jews, is responsible for an attack on Jews? Because rhetoric.
“Trump is a globalist, not a nationalist,” Bowers wrote. “There is no #MAGA [Make America Great Again] as long as there is a [Jewish] infestation.”.. From the horse's mouth...

Meanwhile... "The nonprofits Celebrate Mercy and MPower Change created a crowdfunding campaign for the Tree of Life synagogue victims on LaunchGood, a Muslim crowdsourcing site. The campaign passed its original fundraising goal of $25,000 within six hours, and then its new goal of $50,000 within 24 hours*

Meanwhile... "Speaking to the crowds, Mr Trump said: “By the way, somebody just said your hair looks different today.

“I said well I was standing under the wing of Air Force One, doing a news conference earlier this morning, a very unfortunate news conference and the wind was blowing and the rain, and I was soaking wet.”

Meanwhile ... "The two people killed Wednesday -- Maurice Stallard and Vickie Jones -- were shot in the grocery store and the parking lot, respectively. CNN affiliate WDRB described both victims as black." .. Tumbleweed

He's not responsible, he's a stable enough genius to only incite and take care of his rug.
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  #16842  
Old 29.10.2018, 16:54
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Oh ffs.

Before my eyes get stuck in the back of my head. Trump is not responsible for all anti Semitic episodes in the past world wide. But I believe that his speeches and actions provide encouragement for white supremacist actors.

What do you think is responsible for the rise in Anti Semitism in the US?

Trump is like the match igniting the shitheads in the pot of discontent.
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  #16843  
Old 29.10.2018, 16:59
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What do you think is responsible for the rise in Anti Semitism in the US?
The Golden Generation is dying out. The Holocaust is fading out of memory. The US, along with the rest of the world, is reverting to type.
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  #16844  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:06
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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The Golden Generation is dying out. The Holocaust is fading out of memory. The US, along with the rest of the world, is reverting to type.
I wonder about this. Given that racism tends to be higher the older you get, you would think that older generations dying off would perhaps cause a downswing, or at least if other people become older and replace them, you'd expect the status quo to remain level. The fact that there has been an upswing in the last few years suggests there is another factor(s).
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  #16845  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:07
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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..... Meanwhile... "Speaking to the crowds, Mr Trump said: “By the way, somebody just said your hair looks different today.

“I said well I was standing under the wing of Air Force One, doing a news conference earlier this morning, a very unfortunate news conference and the wind was blowing and the rain, and I was soaking wet.”


Allow me a little sarcasm, it's unbearable without.
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  #16846  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I wonder about this. Given that racism tends to be higher the older you get, you would think that older generations dying off would perhaps cause a downswing, or at least if other people become older and replace them, you'd expect the status quo to remain level. The fact that there has been an upswing in the last few years suggests there is another factor(s).
Anti-semitism is the default setting for European and US culture (not to mention large chunks of the rest of the world). For our grandparents' generation, the revelations of the Holocaust made it somewhat unfashionable for a while. Now the people who have direct recollection of the horrors are dying, we are reverting to our factory setting.

Blaming individual gobshites is just making excuses for the overall hatefulness of our culture.

But hey, if we can shift the blame onto THE OTHER, we'll all feel better, eh?
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  #16847  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I am not saying Trump is solely responsible and i think, most of you know it. If not, well. ............

I am saying his presidency fosters an environment where individuals feel emboldened to practice racism, anti Semitism, and violence against perceived enemies.

I rather like this opinion piece...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nl_most&wpmm=1

An excerpt:

If no politician’s words, written or spoken, have any effect on anyone, how does one explain hundreds of years of successful propaganda? Politicians, aside from engaging the military or civilian law enforcement, have few tools other than their microphone. And certainly, those trying to skate by with a cramped definition of “responsibility” know this. We elect presidents in large part because they have the bully pulpit and can rally a country, put an issue front and center, change minds and set the contours for acceptable debate. Few would argue that race-baiting leaders in the Jim Crow South had “no responsibility” for racial violence against African Americans. When politicians demonize outsiders (or insinuate their own countrymen are really outsiders), remove social inhibitions against expressing bigotry and dehumanize enemies (and those who they claim assist them), the hate-mongers can hardly be surprised if some fraction of the population takes them seriously.
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  #16848  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Anti-semitism is the default setting for European and US culture (not to mention large chunks of the rest of the world). For our grandparents' generation, the revelations of the Holocaust made it somewhat unfashionable for a while. Now the people who have direct recollection of the horrors are dying, we are reverting to our factory setting.

Blaming individual gobshites is just making excuses for the overall hatefulness of our culture.

But hey, if we can shift the blame onto THE OTHER, we'll all feel better, eh?
You think specifically anti-Semitism is the default setting, or general xenophobia / racism? I'm pretty sure, throughout history, as soon as something goes wrong, the nearest forrin is the first target, rather than any specific race/religion.
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  #16849  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What do you think is responsible for the rise in Anti Semitism in the US?
is there actually a rise in antisemistism, or is there just an increase in our perception / reporting?

There is a thin line between people blaming the 1% / bankers / rentiers etc, many of who traditionally happen to be of Jewish extraction, and using those words as code to establish that a certain group of people are responsible for all the world's ills and thus justify retribution against them.

Many people who actively deny being anti-semitic are thus unwittingly rocking the boat by failing to differentiate sufficiently, and putting into circulation ideas that lead others to evil deeds.
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  #16850  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You think specifically anti-Semitism is the default setting, or general xenophobia / racism? I'm pretty sure, throughout history, as soon as something goes wrong, the nearest forrin is the first target, rather than any specific race/religion.
I think that in most cases, antisemitism didn't erupt spontaneously but was stoked and encouraged for whaever reason.
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  #16851  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:38
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You think specifically anti-Semitism is the default setting, or general xenophobia / racism? I'm pretty sure, throughout history, as soon as something goes wrong, the nearest forrin is the first target, rather than any specific race/religion.
But that's what makes anti-semitism a very special sort of bigotry: in most cases the victims are our own compatriots, not some random incomer.

Not blaming you personally, but the fact that we consider our Jewish neighbours to be foreigners, when they have likely lived alongside us for generations, tells us everything we need to know about our default attitude towards Jewish people.
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  #16852  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:42
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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is there actually a rise in antisemistism, or is there just an increase in our perception / reporting?

There is a thin line between people blaming the 1% / bankers / rentiers etc, many of who traditionally happen to be of Jewish extraction, and using those words as code to establish that a certain group of people are responsible for all the world's ills and thus justify retribution against them.

Many people who actively deny being anti-semitic are thus unwittingly rocking the boat by failing to differentiate sufficiently, and putting into circulation ideas that lead others to evil deeds.
Mea culpa: I had no idea until very recently that "globalist" was a dogwhistle term for "shady Jews" just like "cosmopolitan" before it. I'd been using it with gleeful abandon for years.

But hey, I'm European. It's what we do. I probably check my wallet when I see a gypsy, though I'd never admit it.
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  #16853  
Old 29.10.2018, 17:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But that's what makes anti-semitism a very special sort of bigotry: in most cases the victims are our own compatriots, not some random incomer.

Not blaming you personally, but the fact that we consider our Jewish neighbours to be foreigners, when they have likely lived alongside us for generations, tells us everything we need to know about our default attitude towards Jewish people.
That isn't a uniquely Jewish issue though, not even historically. Look in the US at the moment and tell me that third plus generation Hispanic people aren't being abused.

People will always target difference - I don't think whether that difference is skin colour, language, culture or wearing a little hat on a Saturday has any bearing on prejudice - you are marked out as different, so in times of strife, people prefer to scapegoat you than look at the real causes (ably assisted by the ruling classes, we should hasten to add).
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  #16854  
Old 29.10.2018, 19:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Can you reasonably explain in any way how Trump - who has just moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, whose son-in-law is an orthodox Jew and whose daughter Ivanka has converted to Judaism - is responsible for this attack?
He is the US President so responsible for everything even though he keeps pretending to be an innocent bystander.

Whether he is a provocateur is a different question
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  #16855  
Old 29.10.2018, 19:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Can you reasonably explain in any way how Trump - who has just moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, whose son-in-law is an orthodox Jew and whose daughter Ivanka has converted to Judaism - is responsible for this attack?
You conveniently ignored the parcel bombs, that means you concede that attack?.

Regarding Bowers, I think Stirb put that best "when you lie in bed with Neo-Nazi dogs, you sometimes get anti-Semitic fleas."
Trump has consistently refused to condemn white nationalists, who can forget his glorious 'both sides' speech? and white nationalists have been known to be a smidgen antisemitic.

Last edited by reids; 29.10.2018 at 19:18. Reason: ?
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  #16856  
Old 29.10.2018, 19:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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is there actually a rise in antisemistism, or is there just an increase in our perception / reporting?

There is a thin line between people blaming the 1% / bankers / rentiers etc, many of who traditionally happen to be of Jewish extraction, and using those words as code to establish that a certain group of people are responsible for all the world's ills and thus justify retribution against them.

Many people who actively deny being anti-semitic are thus unwittingly rocking the boat by failing to differentiate sufficiently, and putting into circulation ideas that lead others to evil deeds.
"people blaming the 1% / bankers / rentiers etc, many of who traditionally happen to be of Jewish extraction,"
Typical racism and antisemitism and you do not even recognise you are doing it!
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  #16857  
Old 29.10.2018, 19:46
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So you believe it was an act of faith and not a terrorist act, or an act of war?
"Republican terrorist", just like "Islamic terrorist".Maybe "Trump terrorist"
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  #16858  
Old 29.10.2018, 20:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Now this bit is a bit confusing?
No it's not
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  #16859  
Old 29.10.2018, 20:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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President Trump and three of his children persuaded vulnerable consumers to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in fake business opportunities in exchange for “large, secret payments,” according to a lawsuit filed Monday.
Source

Just another day in Paradise!
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  #16860  
Old 29.10.2018, 21:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Anti-semitism is the default setting for European and US culture (not to mention large chunks of the rest of the world). For our grandparents' generation, the revelations of the Holocaust made it somewhat unfashionable for a while. Now the people who have direct recollection of the horrors are dying, we are reverting to our factory setting.

Blaming individual gobshites is just making excuses for the overall hatefulness of our culture.

But hey, if we can shift the blame onto THE OTHER, we'll all feel better, eh?
I’m not part of the we above, so I wonder who the ‘we’ is.

But saying it’s the default setting is a cop out. Like, oh, it’s just the way we are. We’re programmed to be anti Semitic. But where does that programming happen? By other religions? Maybe. Is it genetic?

I don’t think suggesting that the rhetoric and actions of the current president contributes to domestic terrorism is making excuses. It’s being very specific and it’s suggesting a remedy.

The Jewish community has suggested Trump stay out of Pittsburgh unless he makes specific changes to his speech. Trump makes anti Semitism acceptable without even mentioning Jews. He marginalizes people, promotes violence against journalists. He suggests white supremacists are fine people. He divides.

Actually, I don’t feel better blaming Trump. I feel very sad.
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