Will Trump be a Good President? - Page 844

Medea Fleecestealer · #**16861** 29.10.2018, 21:24

	Quote:
	I’m not part of the we above, so I wonder who the ‘we’ is. But saying it’s the default setting is a cop out. Like, oh, it’s just the way we are. We’re programmed to be anti Semitic. But where does that programming happen? By other religions? Maybe. Is it genetic? I don’t think suggesting that the rhetoric and actions of the current president contributes to domestic terrorism is making excuses. It’s being very specific and it’s suggesting a remedy. The Jewish community has suggested Trump stay out of Pittsburgh unless he makes specific changes to his speech. Trump makes anti Semitism acceptable without even mentioning Jews. He marginalizes people, promotes violence against journalists. He suggests white supremacists are fine people. He divides. Actually, I don’t feel better blaming Trump. I feel very sad.

Certainly the Christian religion has blamed the Jews for murdering Christ for some 2,000 years. So yeah, probably pretty much bred into us by now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide

#**16862** 29.10.2018, 21:50

And the asshole in chief is visiting Pittsburgh tomorrow. Specifically after being asked to wait till after the funerals at least.

Most if not all of the funerals are tomorrow. 11 funerals and this spoiled turd of a president has to come into the middle of it and add to the pressure placed upon local law enforcement. Ugh.

Not to mention the families trying to lay their loved ones to rest. They don‘t deserve a circus.

marton · #**16863** 29.10.2018, 21:58

	Quote:	marton
	US consumer spending increased 0.3% in Sept, while personal income edged up 0.2% — the smallest gain since June 2017 Source I am sure the 1% are doing great but how much the 99% benefit from Trump's growing economy is doubtful. The personal savings rate slipped to 6.2 percent in September, the lowest level in 2018, which is not a good sign. Despite a big jump this morning the Dow is still hovering around the same level as at this year's start having lost all 2018 gains. It might jump much higher or crash down again, uncertain times.

Strange Market day!
Dow rose over 350 points from yesterdays close, then fell 900 points and finally finished 250 points down on the day.
Previous close 24,688.31
Open 24,818.98
Day high 25,040.58
Day low 24,122.23

Close 24,442.92 Day -245.39

st2lemans · #**16864** 29.10.2018, 22:07

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Certainly the Christian religion has blamed the Jews for murdering Christ for some 2,000 years. So yeah, probably pretty much bred into us by now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide

Umm, Jesus was a Jew himself.

Anyway, it was the Swiss (raetians, aka buendners) who killed him.

Tom

#**16865** 29.10.2018, 23:10

Oh, just piss off Tom - not the time

#**16866** 30.10.2018, 01:01

#**16867** 30.10.2018, 06:29

	Quote:
	Oh, just piss off Tom - not the time

Been on the sauce again?

#**16868** 30.10.2018, 08:07

	Quote:
	You conveniently ignored the parcel bombs, that means you concede that attack?. Regarding Bowers, I think Stirb put that best "when you lie in bed with Neo-Nazi dogs, you sometimes get anti-Semitic fleas." Trump has consistently refused to condemn white nationalists, who can forget his glorious 'both sides' speech? and white nationalists have been known to be a smidgen antisemitic.

Is Trump to blame for those bombs? Who's to blame for the shooting up of a Republican party office yesterday?

#**16869** 30.10.2018, 08:11

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Is Trump to blame for those bombs?

To the same degree that the general Muslim population is to blame for Islamic terrorism.

Probably more actually given how inflammatory his personal rhetoric is.

#**16870** 30.10.2018, 08:24

	Quote:
	To the same degree that the general Muslim population is to blame for Islamic terrorism. Probably more actually given how inflammatory his personal rhetoric is.

After a Islamic terrorist attack, there usually is a degree of collective responsiblity - Family members not going to the police despite knowledge of what is planned, Mosques tolerating or harbouring terrorists etc. That isn't to say all Muslims are responsible, but often the blame can be proven to go wider than those who carried out the acts themselves. Trump on the other hand just says stuff.

#**16871** 30.10.2018, 09:13

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Trump on the other hand just says stuff.

Like praising a republican candidate who physically assaulted a journalist? Like describing white supremacists as fine people? Like describing the press as the enemy of the people? The Trump who lies about the refugee caravan in Central America to stoke up hatred of immigrants?

Caleb · #**16872** 30.10.2018, 09:17

	Quote:	Loz1983
	After a Islamic terrorist attack, there usually is a degree of collective responsiblity - Family members not going to the police despite knowledge of what is planned, Mosques tolerating or harbouring terrorists etc. That isn't to say all Muslims are responsible, but often the blame can be proven to go wider than those who carried out the acts themselves.

Agree. So it's not just the 0.000002% of muslims who are responsible for terrorism. It's actually more like 0.00000201%.

#**16873** 30.10.2018, 09:26

	Quote:	Loz1983
	So Trump, who never says anything against Jews, is responsible for an attack on Jews? Because rhetoric.

No because is general hate speech is encouraging the overall racist agenda. From David Myers, professor of Jewish History at UCLA:

	Quote:
	He has dramatically elevated the level of rhetorical tension in ways that do not discourage people from acting out their terrifying views.....there is a toxic culture of vilification and demonisation that has pervaded American political culture in recent years. Donald Trump did not invent that toxic culture but he has certainly stirred the pot considerably....

BTW, antisemitism is massively increasing in the US:

	Quote:
	Jews make up only about 2 percent of the U.S. population, but in annual FBI data they repeatedly account for more than half of the Americans targeted by hate crimes committed due to religious bias. The Anti-Defamation League identified nearly 1,986 anti-Semitic incidents in the U.S. in 2017, up from 1,267 in 2016. It also reported a major increase in anti-Semitic online harassment.

https://apnews.com/2d425735493a427ba2aed81300f925eb

#**16874** 30.10.2018, 09:46

	Quote:	Caleb
	Agree. So it's not just the 0.000002% of muslims who are responsible for terrorism. It's actually more like 0.00000201%.

Islam is responsible for Islamic terrorism, Muslims are the ones that carry it out.

	Quote:
	No because is general hate speech is encouraging the overall racist agenda. From David Myers, professor of Jewish History at UCLA: BTW, antisemitism is massively increasing in the US: https://apnews.com/2d425735493a427ba2aed81300f925eb

Here's a handy list of death wishes against Donald Trump on Twitter.

#**16875** 30.10.2018, 09:59

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Is Trump to blame for those bombs? Who's to blame for the shooting up of a Republican party office yesterday?

You mean this?

https://www.news-journalonline.com/n...ire-in-volusia

Someone took a shot at a republican hq overnight. No causalties. Really?

Probably was some pissed off Democrat. They have guns too sometimes, they're just more careful about when they use them. Hardly equivalent. Could have been a Republican looking for some press, too.

Ouchboy · #**16876** 30.10.2018, 10:02

To say that Trump "just says stuff" is rather ignorant.

It is one of those concentric Circles that Harris mentions when he criticizes islam; except of course this is for the right. That is why Richard Spencer , Andrew Anglin , et. al. feel that not condeming them is equivalent to approval.

But sure, pretend that Trump's comment happen in a vaccuum

#**16877** 30.10.2018, 10:04

	Quote:
	You mean this? https://www.news-journalonline.com/n...ire-in-volusia Someone took a shot at a republican hq overnight. No causalties. Really? Probably was some pissed off Democrat. They have guns too sometimes, they're just more careful about when they use them. Hardly equivalent. Could have been a Republican looking for some press, too.

Lol, and how many casualties from the bombs?

Caleb · #**16878** 30.10.2018, 10:07

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Islam is responsible for Islamic terrorism, Muslims are the ones that carry it out.

Jeez, Loz, you are using a VERY broad brush. I wouldn't say that Islam, the religion, is responsible for terrorism. I'd say the cause is poverty (which usually brings bad upbringing with it), ignorance and a very loose interpretation of what is usually just a regular religion, not very different from Christianity or Judaism. Christianity wasn't responsible for the Spanish Inquisition: it was the greed for power and control over other people. The rest was just an excuse. Same as Islamic terrorism is in the XX and XXI century.

But we're off-topic here. The discussion was whether Trump is partially responsible for the bombs or not, which is a very difficult question to answer unequivocally: on one hand the bomber is not a mentally stable individual. He could have sent those bombs at any point in history (just like the Austin suicide attack in Obama's early days at the White House, or the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, or the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing received no influence from a president's infuriating speeches). On the other hand, Trump's speeches may have incited this madman to go ahead and listen to the voices in his head that told him to mail bombs. Who knows?

On the other hand, he doesn't help in any shape or form. If anything, it can incite hate-fuelled acts (which by the way, Islam per se doesn't).

Disclaimer: I'm not American, or Muslim, or even remotely religious at all. I have no affiliation to any side of the Republican-Democrat spectrum.

#**16879** 30.10.2018, 10:18

Loz how many shootings in the USA in last 2 years were done by Muslims - stats please.

#**16880** 30.10.2018, 10:18

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Lol, and how many casualties from the bombs?

Hardly Tit for Tat. You are the master of false equivalency.