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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 88 27.16%
No 236 72.84%
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  #19281  
Old 01.07.2019, 11:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Your right. I dont like HIM as a person but I do like some of his actions and policies. He says stupid things on twatter but then turns around and sometimes makes sensible policies, sometimes. Do you judge a man by his rhetoric or his actions? Actions speak louder than words IMO. And after watching some of the democratic debate I would have to say the biggest winner was actually Trump. The only person who has a real chance against Trump is Andrew Yang but the DNC would rather play the race card mixed with identity politics which will not win. So it looks like four more years of Trump before Dan Crenshaw takes over in 2024.
Interested to know which Trump actions you mean we should judge him on?
  • There were the 2017 tax cuts which increased the US debt by over a $1 trillion.
  • So far no trade deals approved by Congress, the "great dealmaker" has only cancelled major agreements like Trans-Pacific Partnership, Iran nuclear deal, Paris Climate agreement, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and seeks to abandon key WTO principles on trade. So far he has failed to replace any of these with new deals.
  • Introduced tariffs which have increased consumer costs so pretty well wiped his tax benefits for middle class and under.
  • He claims credit for the strong economy and low unemployment but can you point to any Trump actions which actually caused these?
  • Most of his other actions are tied up in the law courts costing US tax payers several fortunes because he tried to side step the US due processes for introducing change.
Please note these are facts not opinions!

Turning to opinions if you really believe Kim likes Trump then I would like to have some of what you are smoking!
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  #19282  
Old 01.07.2019, 12:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I judge a person by his values. His actions may not reflect his values entirely, given a myriad of other factors. E.g.: HIS values include derision for Latinamerican inmigrants; to prevent inmigrants from illegally flocking into the country, he wants to build a wall. He had 3 years to work on it, yet he hasn't achieved much. What matters in this tiny example is not what he did (or didn't) do, but what he cares about.

Based on what I've read in mainstream media (and the speeches I've seen/heard), Trump is an inmature bigot, racist, mysoginistic bully, which all in all makes him an absolutely horrible person. I'm ashamed to belong to the same (human) race as an individual as him.
I wouldn't call him a role model but I don't think he is as racist as the media makes him out to be. Bill Clinton was the first president to start building a wall, is he racist? Obama built even more wall, is Obama racist? And yes Trump has built more wall than both combined. And I do believe most Americans would rather take care of our own first before we give free health care, housing and education to thousands of illegal immigrants while we have a homeless crisis in L.A, SF, Portland, Seattle, etc. There is a legal process which must be followed, as in every country, and Trump's current immigration bill is actually very reasonable. I also don't think a racist would go to Palm Beach and create the first non-segregated club that allowed whites, blacks, gays, and jews. He had to fight hard for that. Before Trump, there was only white clubs and Jewish clubs and they were extremely segregated. Trumps prison reform bill was probably the best thing to happen to the black community since the civil rights bill. Trump helped to turn Harlem around and is why the Clintons moved there. Trump is not racist, IMO, he only cares about money which is both good and bad. He has shown that throughout his life he is willing to work with anyone from any race which is the opposite of what a racist would do.

http://www.newstandardpress.com/the-...nd-the-blacks/
For decades Trump cultivated friendships with African Americans. He sued the city of Palm Beach for excluding African Americans and Jews from social clubs. He created the first high-end social club in Palm Beach that welcomed black persons as members. He supported Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition to pressure corporations to hire and promote black and minority employees. Trump supported the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He praised minorities working in his real estate projects. In 1999, he wanted to run for President with an African American woman as his running-mate. He made campaign contributions to political candidates who are African Americans and minorities. He made more contributions to an African American than to any white candidate. He also donated to charities affiliated with prominent African Americans.


This might blow your mind.
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  #19283  
Old 01.07.2019, 13:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I wouldn't call him a role model but I don't think he is as racist as the media makes him out to be. Bill Clinton was the first president to start building a wall, is he racist? Obama built even more wall, is Obama racist? And yes Trump has built more wall than both combined. And I do believe most Americans would rather take care of our own first before we give free health care, housing and education to thousands of illegal immigrants while we have a homeless crisis in L.A, SF, Portland, Seattle, etc. There is a legal process which must be followed, as in every country, and Trump's current immigration bill is actually very reasonable. I also don't think a racist would go to Palm Beach and create the first non-segregated club that allowed whites, blacks, gays, and jews. He had to fight hard for that. Before Trump, there was only white clubs and Jewish clubs and they were extremely segregated. Trumps prison reform bill was probably the best thing to happen to the black community since the civil rights bill. Trump helped to turn Harlem around and is why the Clintons moved there. Trump is not racist, IMO, he only cares about money which is both good and bad. He has shown that throughout his life he is willing to work with anyone from any race which is the opposite of what a racist would do.

http://www.newstandardpress.com/the-...nd-the-blacks/
For decades Trump cultivated friendships with African Americans. He sued the city of Palm Beach for excluding African Americans and Jews from social clubs. He created the first high-end social club in Palm Beach that welcomed black persons as members. He supported Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition to pressure corporations to hire and promote black and minority employees. Trump supported the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He praised minorities working in his real estate projects. In 1999, he wanted to run for President with an African American woman as his running-mate. He made campaign contributions to political candidates who are African Americans and minorities. He made more contributions to an African American than to any white candidate. He also donated to charities affiliated with prominent African Americans.


This might blow your mind.
Trump had to create a non-segregated club as otherwise he would have had no customers; rich Floridians had no interest in joining a club run by a New York property developer.

During the class-action lawsuit against Trump University, Donald Trump said that Judge Gonzalo Curiel was incapable of being a fair judge because he is Mexican. This is the very definition of racism.

Then there were comments he made following a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia and many more examples.
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  #19284  
Old 01.07.2019, 13:45
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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...But in the eyes of Koreans this was more progress than any piece of paper. You must first build a foundation of respect and Trump visiting NK is the most respectful thing that has happened in my life time. This is how the Koreans would see this event. He showed up and showed respect. First step towards real peace accomplished...
This illustrates the sharp divide in opinions and approaches over the years. The Korean viewpoint, you say, requires respect to be shown first. This was demonstrated by Trump agreeing to meet directly with Kim rather than via his Cabinet, and meeting at and crossing the DMZ.

The American viewpoint is often that the other needs to earn respect. Since the end of the war, American presidents don't want to be seen "rewarding" or endorsing any actions of Kim's family. I seem to recall during the Obama administration a journalist asked why not agree to meet Kim in person, and the administration official said Kim has to earn a meeting with the most powerful man in the world and there would be preconditions. What wasn't clear though was how Kim would actually earn that meeting.

Then you have Trump. He respects individuals he perceives as tough, so he respects Kim and Putin. He sees nothing wrong with meeting and talking to them and doesn't see a need for preconditions.
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  #19285  
Old 01.07.2019, 13:50
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I am open to being proven wrong, so I spent the last 15min (yeah, not a busy day at work today...at all) doing online research to see if my perception of Mr. Trump was completely wrong in regards to racism (I am quite sure he IS everything else I said). I found quite a few "jewels", such as:
- The 1989 interview with Bryant Gumbel, during which he said "A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well-educated white in terms of the job market."
- His company, the Trump Management firm, was sued by the Dept. of Justice for discrimination against African Americans in their renting practices.
- There's an entire Wikipedia article about "Racial views of Donald Trump"
- And of course, the classics: birther-movement, shit-hole countries, Pocahontas, bad hombres, etc.

I won't copy quotes, which can be read in WikiQuote. There's a ton of them.

To me, this plethora of cases where Trump talks about other races like that, is a strong sign that "where there's smoke...".
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  #19286  
Old 01.07.2019, 14:01
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I wouldn't call him a role model but I don't think he is as racist as the media makes him out to be. Bill Clinton was the first president to start building a wall, is he racist? Obama built even more wall, is Obama racist? And yes Trump has built more wall than both combined. And I do believe most Americans would rather take care of our own first before we give free health care, housing and education to thousands of illegal immigrants while we have a homeless crisis in L.A, SF, Portland, Seattle, etc. There is a legal process which must be followed, as in every country, and Trump's current immigration bill is actually very reasonable. I also don't think a racist would go to Palm Beach and create the first non-segregated club that allowed whites, blacks, gays, and jews. He had to fight hard for that. Before Trump, there was only white clubs and Jewish clubs and they were extremely segregated. Trumps prison reform bill was probably the best thing to happen to the black community since the civil rights bill. Trump helped to turn Harlem around and is why the Clintons moved there. Trump is not racist, IMO, he only cares about money which is both good and bad. He has shown that throughout his life he is willing to work with anyone from any race which is the opposite of what a racist would do.

http://www.newstandardpress.com/the-...nd-the-blacks/
For decades Trump cultivated friendships with African Americans. He sued the city of Palm Beach for excluding African Americans and Jews from social clubs. He created the first high-end social club in Palm Beach that welcomed black persons as members. He supported Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition to pressure corporations to hire and promote black and minority employees. Trump supported the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He praised minorities working in his real estate projects. In 1999, he wanted to run for President with an African American woman as his running-mate. He made campaign contributions to political candidates who are African Americans and minorities. He made more contributions to an African American than to any white candidate. He also donated to charities affiliated with prominent African Americans.


This might blow your mind.
Trump was the mainstream leader of the Birther movement. He campaigned on a Muslim ban. He settled a case on racist housing discrimination practices. He routinely uses racial demagoguery to demonize minorities or nonwhite immigrants. His statements about shit-hole countries and how Nigerians wouldn't return to their huts. His central park 5 response, even after they were vindicated. His slow indifferent response to the hurricane in Peurto Rico in comparison to Texas. His cruel zero tolerance family separation policy. His statements about a Mexican judge that Paul Ryan even called textbook racism. His refusal to denounce NeoNazis, drawing praise from a former KKK grandwizard... You have to be willfully ignorant to not acknowledge or be aware of these actions and statements. Most likely because you share his views.
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  #19287  
Old 01.07.2019, 14:05
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

I agree that people in power should have...how to put it well...polite rhetorics. Clinton did. And then he abused his intern. I have zero illusions about those big guys abusing their power. But I think we are moving from excusing Clinton for making human mistakes (doing something completely wrong) to Trump saying something completely wrong. He, btw, got us used to him always saying something completely off. Because he feels like it and because it gets moral patrol's panties in a twist. So why keep wasting the energy to outrage or grandstand about ourselves. It is his MO. He is wearing pretty good opponents out. On dumb Twitter stuff. So they can have their soapbox and annoy the hell out of regular folks. While he is moving on. Yep, I can also grandstand about everything that got inspired by the Trump schtick..but I think I am also annoyed by the moral patrol never missing any chance to feed into excuses, identity politics and victimhood society. It really weakens Trump's adversaries. The thibg is, at the end of the day, for voters it isn't so important how well Trump is executing his actions but the fact that he's trying. His oponents aren't. They are busy making a point about how much better thslan Trump they are. Trump signifies can-do, while oponents signify you-can't. It will not make them win, I don't think.
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Old 01.07.2019, 14:09
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This illustrates the sharp divide in opinions and approaches over the years. The Korean viewpoint, you say, requires respect to be shown first. This was demonstrated by Trump agreeing to meet directly with Kim rather than via his Cabinet, and meeting at and crossing the DMZ.

The American viewpoint is often that the other needs to earn respect. Since the end of the war, American presidents don't want to be seen "rewarding" or endorsing any actions of Kim's family. I seem to recall during the Obama administration a journalist asked why not agree to meet Kim in person, and the administration official said Kim has to earn a meeting with the most powerful man in the world and there would be preconditions. What wasn't clear though was how Kim would actually earn that meeting.

Then you have Trump. He respects individuals he perceives as tough, so he respects Kim and Putin. He sees nothing wrong with meeting and talking to them...
This. Because he prefers talking now than war tomorrow. And because he needs allies against China, me thinks.
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Old 01.07.2019, 14:21
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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.....
moral patrol's panties in a twist
....
Your reaction to justified outrage at credible accusations of rape, admitted sexual abuse and indifference to murder.
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Old 01.07.2019, 14:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I judge a person by his values. His actions may not reflect his values entirely, given a myriad of other factors. E.g.: HIS values include derision for Latinamerican inmigrants; to prevent inmigrants from illegally flocking into the country, he wants to build a wall. He had 3 years to work on it, yet he hasn't achieved much. What matters in this tiny example is not what he did (or didn't) do, but what he cares about.

Based on what I've read in mainstream media (and the speeches I've seen/heard), Trump is an inmature bigot, racist, mysoginistic bully, which all in all makes him an absolutely horrible person. I'm ashamed to belong to the same (human) race as an individual as him.
I couldn't agree more, bad people do not do good things except by accident.
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  #19291  
Old 01.07.2019, 14:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This. Because he prefers talking now than war tomorrow. And because he needs allies against China, me thinks.


yeah no. backing out unilaterally of deals, is not a big diplomacy move.


China isn't even winning right now, they just don't interrupt trump when he is making a mistake.
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Old 01.07.2019, 14:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Your reaction to justified outrage at credible accusations of rape, admitted sexual abuse and indifference to murder.
Your reaction to my reaction to his reaction.
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Old 01.07.2019, 14:43
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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His oponents aren't. They are busy making a point about how much better thslan Trump they are. Trump signifies can-do, while oponents signify you-can't. It will not make them win, I don't think.
Isn't that just exactly what Trump is doing, though? He's constantly banging the drum that "he's the best", "he's winning", "everything is better", when in reality, he's pretty mediocre and pedestrian, but he just makes the most noise about it.

I guess it works with his core supporters but if you can't come up with the goods and put substantial facts and figures in front of people who actually think for themselves, ask questions and don't accept stuff at face-value, you are bound to be challenged.

He just doesn't like being challenged. Same as anyone else who's act has been busted.
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Old 01.07.2019, 15:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Isn't that just exactly what Trump is doing, though? He's constantly banging the drum that "he's the best", "he's winning", "everything is better", when in reality, he's pretty mediocre and pedestrian, but he just makes the most noise about it.

I guess it works with his core supporters but if you can't come up with the goods and put substantial facts and figures in front of people who actually think for themselves, ask questions and don't accept stuff at face-value, you are bound to be challenged.

He just doesn't like being challenged. Same as anyone else who's act has been busted.
I don't think he cares. What you call "challenging" or "calling somebody on something" is just dogs' barkjng while the caravane keeps moving. And for the self-serving rhetorics, that's just your regular yank branding. Everywhere, everyone. You can have either that or the proxy by trendy issues like progressives tend to brand themselves with. It is not genuine anywhere. Can-do seems to work, though. It is a business move with quantifiable results, probably the only one. "Challenging" might make you feel victorious and self important for a sec but people will still want to see some quantifiable results and can-do. The smartest would be to co-operate, honestly. I do not think he would rub it in, because he actually isn't in all authenticity self-serving, me thinks.
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Old 01.07.2019, 15:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I don't think he cares. What you call "challenging" or "calling somebody on something" is just dogs' barking while the caravane keeps moving. And for the self-serving rhetorics, that's just your regular yank branding. Everywhere, everyone. You can have either that or the proxy by trendy issues like progressives tend to brand themselves with. It is not genuine anywhere. Can-do seems to work, though. It is a business move with quantifiable results, probably the only one. "Challenging" might make you feel victorious and self important for a sec but people will still want to see some quantifiable results and can-do. The smartest would be to co-operate, honestly. I do not think he would rub it in, because he actually isn't in all authenticity self-serving, me thinks.
I'm not sure even you actually believe what you wrote there. Really. If you read it back...

Seriously? Not questioning ANYTHING and labeling anyone who does as "feeling victorious and self-important"? Can you imagine the pile-on and derision in a thread, had you written that about Obama back in the day?

As much as people toot about "TDS", there's a far more serious affliction affecting some people where the blinkers have been firmly affixed and self-belief has long left the building. I guess colours were so adamantly nailed to the mast in the early days in an attempt to be edgy and part of the "new politics", the only action today is to dig in deeper whatever the cost to ones credibility.

RIP democracy. This thread is a constant eye-opener.
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Old 01.07.2019, 15:40
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I don't think he cares. What you call "challenging" or "calling somebody on something" is just dogs' barkjng while the caravane keeps moving. And for the self-serving rhetorics, that's just your regular yank branding. Everywhere, everyone. You can have either that or the proxy by trendy issues like progressives tend to brand themselves with. It is not genuine anywhere. Can-do seems to work, though. It is a business move with quantifiable results, probably the only one. "Challenging" might make you feel victorious and self important for a sec but people will still want to see some quantifiable results and can-do. The smartest would be to co-operate, honestly. I do not think he would rub it in, because he actually isn't in all authenticity self-serving, me thinks.
You mean the caravan of migrants from Central America

I agree people will want to see some quantifiable results; so far he has opened up activities on multiple fronts but has yet deliver results better than his predecessors? Probably he is fighting on too many fronts; China, N. Korea, Iran, the EU, Mexico, the Wall and immigration, Democrats, Census question, the media, 2020 election, &&&&. He has too many balls in the air to manage anyone of them properly.
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Old 01.07.2019, 15:44
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And, anyway, isn't the most likely culprit for the DNC server "hack" / leak an insider wanting revenge for the deceitful treatment of Mr. Sanders ?
No.
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Old 01.07.2019, 15:49
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You mean the caravan of migrants from Central America

I agree people will want to see some quantifiable results; so far he has opened up activities on multiple fronts but has yet deliver results better than his predecessors? Probably he is fighting on too many fronts; China, N. Korea, Iran, the EU, Mexico, the Wall and immigration, Democrats, Census question, the media, 2020 election, &&&&. He has too many balls in the air to manage anyone of them properly.
That's definitely something that he inherited. Glad we agree on the fact that the US shouldn't try to solve other countries' problems.

SG - I understand that people get annoyed when Trump doesn't take their attempts to "challenge" seriously.
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Old 01.07.2019, 16:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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No.

Yes, the culprit behind the DNC leaks was an insider and was upset about how they pushed out Bernie Sanders. Seth Rich was later murdered (official report was died from robbery) and found with all his possesions, cash, jewlery etc, which makes it not a robbery. The DNC is blocking any further investigations, but they are still ongoing.
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Old 01.07.2019, 16:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Trump was the mainstream leader of the Birther movement. He campaigned on a Muslim ban. He settled a case on racist housing discrimination practices. He routinely uses racial demagoguery to demonize minorities or nonwhite immigrants. His statements about shit-hole countries and how Nigerians wouldn't return to their huts. His central park 5 response, even after they were vindicated. His slow indifferent response to the hurricane in Peurto Rico in comparison to Texas. His cruel zero tolerance family separation policy. His statements about a Mexican judge that Paul Ryan even called textbook racism. His refusal to denounce NeoNazis, drawing praise from a former KKK grandwizard... You have to be willfully ignorant to not acknowledge or be aware of these actions and statements. Most likely because you share his views.


All antics used to drum up support from the far right then work his way towards the middle, which worked. Lets not forget that prior to the birther thing Trump was mostly viewed as a democrat so he had to reinvent his charachter, like a good actor. So to win the right he started with the tea party.
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