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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 93 26.50%
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  #19481  
Old 15.07.2019, 18:31
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Where do you suppose they should be kept then? Should they just be let in with their parents (who they often aren’t even with), or should they all be kept together in shitty conditions where the possibility for sexual abuse would be even higher?

The problem is that the system is overloaded with the sheer number of people trying to get in. And this is precisely the reason that a hardline approach is needed. You make it unpleasant and people are more likely to think twice about making the journey. Worked in Australia, working since they clamped down on the taxi service in the Med.
AFAIK, the international treaties related to asylum seeking say that once the person/family presents themselves and requests asylum, they are "let into" the country while the application for asylum is being processed. So yes, once they cross into U.S. territory, they should be housed somewhere. Preferably in humane conditions and together.

It's true the system is overloaded, and that's not helped by the backlog of cases that have not been processed. The system needs a complete overhaul.

However it seems the hard line approach is not working for the USA. Despite the widespread publicity about separated families and terrible conditions, tens of thousands continue to pay smugglers and risk it all, thinking "I'll be the lucky one".

Numbers of people crossing the border have actually surged under Trump, which is the opposite of what you'd expect given his rhetoric. Congress and Trump have cut millions in aid to organizations in Central America, which further stresses those countries and encourages people to leave rather than stay.

I'd also guess that the vast majority of the folks headed to the USA don't know the difference between seeking asylum and economic migration and don't care what it is. They just want a better life, however that works.
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  #19482  
Old 15.07.2019, 18:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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You must be new here.
...or you would know he pretends not to be and deflects instead of answering any tricky questions that require taking a moral position.
  #19483  
Old 15.07.2019, 19:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Presumably he is talking about Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.) and Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.).

Omar was born Mogadishu, Somalia, before coming to the U.S. as a refugee with her family. Pressley was born in Cincinnati, while Tlaib was born in Detroit. Ocasio-Cortez was born in New York.

I did not know Cincinnati was so bad

Typical Trump xenophobic comments meant to divide the nation and stir up hatred. Horrible man!
Let's see: all of Trump's grandparents were immigrants, his mother was an immigrant, 2 of his 3 wives are immigrants. Maybe they should all be sent back where they came from.
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  #19484  
Old 15.07.2019, 19:28
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Let's see: all of Trump's grandparents were immigrants, his mother was an immigrant, 2 of his 3 wives are immigrants. Maybe they should all be sent back where they came from.
Important distinction: they're not brown.
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Old 15.07.2019, 20:00
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Let's see: all of Trump's grandparents were immigrants, his mother was an immigrant, 2 of his 3 wives are immigrants. Maybe they should all be sent back where they came from.
To fix the crime ridden places they came from.

Except, of course, Ocasio-Cortez who was born in New York. Trump already left New York (mostly) so the problem is fixed
  #19486  
Old 15.07.2019, 20:42
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If they pass the asylum tests then it gives them the right to expect entry into the US for them and their families.
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AFAIK, the international treaties related to asylum seeking say that once the person/family presents themselves and requests asylum, they are "let into" the country while the application for asylum is being processed. So yes, once they cross into U.S. territory, they should be housed somewhere. Preferably in humane conditions and together.
Bingo, which is why if they don't want to be separated and want a fair shot at asylum then they should try and enter through the correct channels and not illegally.

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Suggest you look up the murder rates in Central America Northern Triangle to improve your understanding
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It's not bloody tickling, is it?
"High murder rate" is not a reason to claim political asylum. The vast majority of the murder rate and violent crime in those countries is related to organised crime (gang violence, drugs trafficking etc.).


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Numbers of people crossing the border have actually surged under Trump, which is the opposite of what you'd expect given his rhetoric. Congress and Trump have cut millions in aid to organizations in Central America, which further stresses those countries and encourages people to leave rather than stay.
This simply isn't true, bribing people to stay put never works.

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I'd also guess that the vast majority of the folks headed to the USA don't know the difference between seeking asylum and economic migration and don't care what it is. They just want a better life, however that works.
Which is fair enough, but lets not pretend these people are asylum seekers, and they're not to be blamed for wanting a better life for themselves. Risking kids lives though in order to do that though just makes you a shit parent.
  #19487  
Old 15.07.2019, 20:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Which is fair enough, but lets not pretend these people are asylum seekers, and they're not to be blamed for wanting a better life for themselves. Risking kids lives though in order to do that though just makes you a shit parent.
So... putting those same kids in cages, denying them showers and toothbrushes, and tolerating their sexual abuse makes you, what, a just society???
  #19488  
Old 15.07.2019, 20:55
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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So... putting those same kids in cages, denying them showers and toothbrushes, and tolerating their sexual abuse makes you, what, a just society???
This isn't the norm, this is the exception as a result of an overloaded system. Under normal circumstances, minors are housed either in federal facilities or with foster parents. They have access to medical care, teachers, gender and age separated dormitories etc.

Again, the question is, what is the alternative? Just let anyone who shows up with a child in?
  #19489  
Old 15.07.2019, 21:03
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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This isn't the norm, this is the exception as a result of an overloaded system. Under normal circumstances, minors are housed either in federal facilities or with foster parents. They have access to medical care, teachers, gender and age separated dormitories etc.

Again, the question is, what is the alternative? Just let anyone who shows up with a child in?
If it isn't the norm, then why is it acceptable? One official statement I have read is that ICE's staff don't join to be janitors or health care professionals (or words to that effect).

If this were the greatest nation on earth, with the greatest administration ever, then the official response would be a bit... "greater".

The alternative is... don't split the families, and when you put the parents back over the border, then send the children with them.
  #19490  
Old 15.07.2019, 21:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

Guys, stop feeding the troll. Put him back in his cage.
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Old 15.07.2019, 21:17
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Guys, stop feeding the troll. Put him back in his cage.
You never let us have any fun.
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  #19492  
Old 15.07.2019, 21:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Bingo, which is why if they don't want to be separated and want a fair shot at asylum then they should try and enter through the correct channels and not illegally.

"High murder rate" is not a reason to claim political asylum. The vast majority of the murder rate and violent crime in those countries is related to organised crime (gang violence, drugs trafficking etc.).

This simply isn't true, bribing people to stay put never works.

Which is fair enough, but lets not pretend these people are asylum seekers, and they're not to be blamed for wanting a better life for themselves. Risking kids lives though in order to do that though just makes you a shit parent.
Another list of prejudiced opinions without reference to relevant laws or facts.

Basically for kids it is a risk/benefit analysis.
Is the risk for the kids greater by staying where they are or greater by moving to another place?

It is not a case of "pretending these people are asylum seekers"; even with the difficulties that the Trump administration throws in front of asylum seekers around 30% are successful according to US official numbers.

"They should try and enter through the correct channels and not illegally" You are demonstrating ignorance of US asylum law; asylum seekers in the U.S. have the right under US law to request asylum regardless of how they entered the country.

Also under US law people arriving at the U.S. border or already in the US have the right to request asylum without being criminalized, turned back, or separated from their children.

"The vast majority of the murder rate and violent crime in those countries is related to organised crime (gang violence, drugs trafficking etc.). " so in your view of the world these asylum seekers are somehow magically protected from this murder rate and violent crime?
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Old 16.07.2019, 01:02
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

As a candidate, President Trump promised to wipe out not only the US annual deficit but the entire federal debt, which has surpassed $22 trillion.
But now the cold reality!!
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The White House projects that the federal deficit will surpass $1 trillion this year, the only time in the nation's history the deficit has exceeded that level, excluding the four-year period following the Great Recession.

Budget hawks noted with dismay that the rising deficit was taking place at a time of strong economic growth, when economists say fiscal policy should be more restrained.
Until now the White House has been denying the independent forecasts of a huge federal deficit increase, refreshing they are now coming clean.
  #19494  
Old 16.07.2019, 06:35
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

He says to these senators " if you don't like it here leave! " . Does he apply that rule to the people in violence,poverty stricken countries like Nicaragua,Guatamala etc. " if you don't like it there leave!". What a racist pig this guy is. And its all just to get himself reelected!
  #19495  
Old 16.07.2019, 07:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If it isn't the norm, then why is it acceptable? One official statement I have read is that ICE's staff don't join to be janitors or health care professionals (or words to that effect).

If this were the greatest nation on earth, with the greatest administration ever, then the official response would be a bit... "greater".

The alternative is... don't split the families, and when you put the parents back over the border, then send the children with them.
If the European migrant crisis has shown us anything it’s that when families are housed together in migrant centres, the risk of violence and sexual assault against women and children increases dramatically. And what happens then? Women and children have to be separated for their own safety.

In and around Stuttgart alone there were 105 rapes, assaults and robberies of women and 77 against children in the refugee centres
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Old 16.07.2019, 07:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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If the European migrant crisis has shown us anything it’s that when families are housed together in migrant centres, the risk of violence and sexual assault against women and children increases dramatically. And what happens then? Women and children have to be separated for their own safety.

In and around Stuttgart alone there were 105 rapes, assaults and robberies of women and 77 against children in the refugee centres
‘Women and children’ not ‘parents from children’. In that case, it’s not the same, is it?
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Old 16.07.2019, 07:47
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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‘Women and children’ not ‘parents and children’. In that case, it’s not the same, is it?
Nice try to be marton, but unaccompanied minors entering Germany are housed either with foster families or in superintended child accommodation. These cases relate to children housed with their families.
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Old 16.07.2019, 08:25
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Nice try to be marton, but unaccompanied minors entering Germany are housed either with foster families or in superintended child accommodation. These cases relate to children housed with their families.
Arguing the person rather than the point again, Loz? Once you start confusing who is who in a thread, and drawing comparables between two unconnected and unrelated examples I guess you’re done here, right?
  #19499  
Old 16.07.2019, 09:41
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Virtue signaller meets reality.

"Illegal immigrants are legal" was pretty hillarious. Did you follow up on Fox where he was interviewed the same day? "That lady was a bartender just a few months ago" said it all. She had no time to actually learn the legal lingo.

It is a shame that an expert devoting 30yrs to actually take care of kids' rights to not be abused has to account to a complete ammateur armed only with her entitlement and selfrighteousness. Let's get rid of all expertise and replace it with attitude and semantics. Like that's gonna work. It won't but it will certainly help a few noobs with career and visibility.
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Old 16.07.2019, 09:53
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"Illegal immigrants are legal" was pretty hillarious. Did you follow up on Fox where he gave interviewed the same day? "That lady was a bartender just a few months ago" said it all. She had no time to actually learn the legal lingo.

It is a shame that an expert devoting 30yrs to actually take care of kids' rights to not be abused has to account to a complete ammateur armed only with her entitlement and selfrighteousness. Let's get rid of all expertise and replace it with attitude and semantics. Like that's gonna work. It won't but it will certainly help a few noobs with career and visibility.
Jesus wept.
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