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  #41  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:00
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Anyone wailing that this is white extremism is just engaging in identity politics. Which is exactly the type of thing the very same people are normally complaining about.
People will wail about all sorts of things but it's not the majority (apparently the majority of Brexiters are not knuckle-dragging racists but the minority that wanted to make their feelings heard loudly so, in terms of identity politics, it's six of one and half a dozen of another).

I would say the majority of Brexiters and Remainers were outraged by the crime itself. A young mother murdered in broad daylight by a nutter. End of.

Mair was found to align himself with white extremism which, mixed with a dangerously volatile mental instability, may or may not have been a motivation for the way he reacted.

The crappy media chose to make a big thing about him yelling Brexit-themed outbursts and predictably those aspects then were used to cloud the rest of the story. This is then flapped around like a worn out flag by those who like to portray themselves as being that much more politically mature than the rest of us.
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  #42  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:30
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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It's more common than you think.

Politicians have been beaten, stabbed, blown up and shot in recent history for various political reasons (mainly the Northern Ireland troubles but also Iraq and other issues). I don't recall the stories being buried by either side of the political divide.

I Remember When Josiah Grinnell was beaten to death. We raced down the streets in our buggys and on foot to catch the rascal. We tarred and feathered him prior to hanging him on the nearest Oak tree. We then commissioned the local printing press to publish a record of events and then sent horses to the four corners of the state.


Gabby Giffords is our equivalent of Joe Cox. Both sides of the gun debates were already pumping the social media airwaves before her ambulance got to the hospital.


Not many recent events, but from the perspective of the media, and some of the posters here, waves of haters are gunning down Liberals and Remainers right and left.
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  #43  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:39
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

Who was Josiah Grinnell?

According to what I can see he was a congressman who retired from congress and died at home of throat disease related to asthma. No mention of any attack or wounding whilst in congress.
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  #44  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:48
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Who was Josiah Grinnell?

According to what I can see he was a congressman who retired from congress and died at home of throat disease related to asthma. No mention of any attack or wounding whilst in congress.
Apparently he got smacked about with a cane while in office. Bruised but not killed.
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  #45  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:58
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Who was Josiah Grinnell?

According to what I can see he was a congressman who retired from congress and died at home of throat disease related to asthma. No mention of any attack or wounding whilst in congress.

Sorry,

Mixing satirical license with a lost train of thought and bad drugs.

(I blame it on the copious amounts of cold medicine I've taken today to combat the illness that is now spreading around the office. )

Josiah just sound more historic than Robert or Bill. Let me try again.

-Politicians, as Sandgrounder points out, have been getting killed, beaten and politicized for a long time.

-Electronic media amplifies the evens, allowing a greater degree of politicization and appearance of increased frequency.

- in reality, recent history has been quite quiet. There are not waves of angry mobs hunting down politicians.

-in response to LoZ, yes - our recent case was politicized like Joe Cox.


I'll take another Nyquil and just read for the rest of the day.
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  #46  
Old 24.11.2016, 10:59
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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I Remember When Josiah Grinnell was beaten to death. We raced down the streets in our buggys and on foot to catch the rascal. We tarred and feathered him prior to hanging him on the nearest Oak tree. We then commissioned the local printing press to publish a record of events and then sent horses to the four corners of the state.
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Apparently he got smacked about with a cane while in office. Bruised but not killed.
Ah. Mob justice. Too busy tarring, feathering and killing to care about the actual victim.

Plus ça change.
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  #47  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:06
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

I feel like you're reading what you want to read rather than what is being said. I personally believe that white extremists are a whole different kettle of terrorist fish than Islamic radicals.

Terrorist they both are however
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  #48  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:26
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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In this case, it doesn't really matter if the public view the crime as terrorism or assassination. We can debate that all day long.

What matters more is the judge's statement and the all life sentence.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/judge-descr...nazism-1593062
"You even researched matricide knowing that Jo Cox was the mother of young children."

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Yes, his bookshelf shows he has some sort of deluded 'neo-Nazi' mindset, but first and foremost the man is clearly mentally ill. He's apparently barely said a word since the murder, and gave his name as "Death to traitors" in court. Before the incident, he'd been a member of a community work programme that supported people with emotional problems and had been 'well known to social services' for some years, according to the local paper.
If that is the case, it's odd that the defence didn't use it. I don't see that an interest in neo-Nazism, presumably over a long period of time unless he amassed the books over a short period, or the premeditation involved as shown in the judge's statement necessarily means that mental illness was the cause of the crime.
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  #49  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:52
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Mair was found to align himself with white extremism which, mixed with a dangerously volatile mental instability, may or may not have been a motivation for the way he reacted.
Apparently, he was found mentally fit to stand trial very soon after his arrest.

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Gabby Giffords is our equivalent of Joe Cox. Both sides of the gun debates were already pumping the social media airwaves before her ambulance got to the hospital.
Gaby Giffords is the most obvious comparative case, except we don't have the gun legislation element to distract the media. The gun was illegally owned.

I've deliberately not read the media with regards to this court case, only searched for and read the testimony and judge's summing up and final sentencing statement. With court cases, I hate any media attempt to spin a story.

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If that is the case, it's odd that the defence didn't use it. I don't see that an interest in neo-Nazism, presumably over a long period of time unless he amassed the books over a short period, or the premeditation involved as shown in the judge's statement necessarily means that mental illness was the cause of the crime.
I find it more odd that the defendant chose not to take the stand, yet wanted to address the court post sentencing. I'm relieved that this request was denied. He had his chance and refused it.
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  #50  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:57
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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I find it more odd that the defendant chose not to take the stand, yet wanted to address the court post sentencing. I'm relieved that this request was denied. He had his chance and refused it.
What was the point in trying to defend himself? It was clear he was guilty. He just wanted to use the stand to make a political statement. Good he wasn't allowed to.

The guy was a modern day Travis Bickle. Loaner, obsession with Nazis, even made his own weapons. Total fruitcake.
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  #51  
Old 24.11.2016, 12:25
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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What was the point in trying to defend himself? It was clear he was guilty. He just wanted to use the stand to make a political statement. Good he wasn't allowed to.
Then why plead not guilty?
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  #52  
Old 24.11.2016, 13:47
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Then why plead not guilty?

Because in his right wing neo-nazi mental mind, he was doing something necessary for his cause. The same as Brevik.
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  #53  
Old 24.11.2016, 13:54
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Then why plead not guilty?
Maybe he thought he'd get lucky, like O.J - guilty as hell but got away with it.
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  #54  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:01
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

Looking at the list of other murderers who received "whole life", it seems that the verdict is reasonlable.

Interesting that Terrorists rarely get "whole life" Terms and even if they do they are released early.
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  #55  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:10
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Looking at the list of other murderers who received "whole life", it seems that the verdict is reasonlable.

Interesting that Terrorists rarely get "whole life" Terms and even if they do they are released early.
Guess you forget about the Lee Rigby terrorists.

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Adebolajo was given a whole life order excluding the possibility of parole, and Adebowale, the younger of the two, was given a minimum term of 45 years in prison
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  #56  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:17
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Guess you forget about the Lee Rigby terrorists.
Try using facts - I said "rare", not "never".
Plus - a targeted killing of a politician isn't Terror.
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  #57  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:21
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Plus - a targeted killing of a politician isn't Terror.
It was used to further his twisted political ideology - textbook terrorism
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  #58  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:24
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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Try using facts - I said "rare", not "never".
Plus - a targeted killing of a politician isn't Terror.
Under UK law it is terrorism, and it happened in the UK

We know places, eg Israel, have much different definitions of what terrorism is. Throw a rock at a tank and you're a terrorist.
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  #59  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:25
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

The mental illness side of the story is a bit of an elephant in the room problem, in my opinion.
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Old 24.11.2016, 14:33
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Re: Josephine Cox - in memory

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It was used to further his twisted political ideology - textbook terrorism
kindly point us in the direction of the said textbook. Terrorism is directed at randon civilians. but if adding politicians to the definition makes you happy - knock yourself out.
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