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Old 23.12.2016, 13:44
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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this guy supposedly leaves Germany and travels to Italy via France. How on earth is that even possible?
Thank you, Schengen!

Back in the bad old days when US citzends needed Visas to go to france, I was once thoroughly searched by the French before entering CH, full pat down and everything, him saying "sorry, just my job". I go to the guy, who was very nice and corteous throughout, "aren't you going to search my motorcycle?", to which he replied "no". (coversation 100% in French, no English).

Tom
  #422  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:46
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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lol, this must be the greatest myth of the migrant crisis. To think that they've walked thousands of miles, when there are busses, trains, cars, etc...

Extreme conditions, as in, normal weather? I haven't heard reports of any refugees heading to the North pole
Troll detected.
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  #423  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:48
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Right, let's see, semi truck - Christmas Market - Berlin, ring a bell?

Compare this with the Boston bombing and you have a completely different type of police response. In Berlin's case, this wasn't necessarily the police which messed up but the whole security apparatus which seems to be incapacitated by bureaucracy and silly laws.
Well the US is no great model.

People here have been complaining that Germany did not promptly deport this man.

According to Trump there are three million criminal illegal aliens in the US who have not been deported; according to this article there are only 820,000
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  #424  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:52
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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lol, this must be the greatest myth of the migrant crisis. To think that they've walked thousands of miles, when there are busses, trains, cars, etc...

Extreme conditions, as in, normal weather? I haven't heard reports of any refugees heading to the North pole
Don't get out much do you?

Finland and Russia agreed Tuesday to tighten restrictions at two Arctic border crossings as an increasing number of asylum seekers try entering the E.U. through the Nordic state.
Source
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  #425  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:52
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Right, let's see, semi truck - Christmas Market - Berlin, ring a bell?

Compare this with the Boston bombing and you have a completely different type of police response. In Berlin's case, this wasn't necessarily the police which messed up but the whole security apparatus which seems to be incapacitated by bureaucracy and silly laws.
It took them 4 days to have the shootout with the Boston Bomber. Same as here but this was over a larger area
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  #426  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:55
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

Heartless though this may seem ... 12 people died in Berlin. That's it. You want Europe locked down because of that?
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  #427  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:58
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Thank you, Schengen!

Back in the bad old days when US citzends needed Visas to go to france, I was once thoroughly searched by the French before entering CH, full pat down and everything, him saying "sorry, just my job". I go to the guy, who was very nice and corteous throughout, "aren't you going to search my motorcycle?", to which he replied "no". (coversation 100% in French, no English).

Tom
"Back in the bad old days" My experience is that Schengen did not make much difference. It was unusual when anybody checked my papers when crossing German borders and green crossings were rarely manned.
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  #428  
Old 23.12.2016, 13:59
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

So what have we learned?
  • Intelligence in Europe is hopeless and it was pure luck that he showed up
  • Nothing was in place to prevent this guy carrying out another attack
  • Schengen is useless when facing a terrorist threat
  • Stop and search works
  • Armed police works
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  #429  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:02
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Don't get out much do you?

Finland and Russia agreed Tuesday to tighten restrictions at two Arctic border crossings as an increasing number of asylum seekers try entering the E.U. through the Nordic state.
Source
Oh, but I do.

Last time I was in the Arctic it was hot and sunny.

So these asylum seekers who are trying to enter Finland - they must have walked to this Arctic border crossing. Because, obviously, going on a several thousand mile trek is top priority for would-be asylum seekers.
They just walk as fast as they can, hoping Finland will still be open when they get there
  #430  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:02
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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So what have we learned?
  • Intelligence in Europe is hopeless and it was pure luck that he showed up
  • Nothing was in place to prevent this guy carrying out another attack
  • Schengen is useless when facing a terrorist threat
  • Stop and search works
  • Armed police works
"Intelligence in Europe is hopeless" If you say so
  #431  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:11
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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It took them 4 days to have the shootout with the Boston Bomber. Same as here but this was over a larger area
There were 2 bombers.
  #432  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:14
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Could you explain what you mean by "police-slackness"?
He's been known to the police for a long time, for minor crimes (dealing), for having to leave the country (he was even in detention depending deportation, I know the papers to do that weren't here and yes I know the law very well concerning this but he came in so he could follow the order to get out - which he last night finally did ), for a while there was a judicial order to observe him, they found connections to extremist groups/people, he offered himself for a suicidal attack via internet .... surely that would be enough reason - even in a "Rechtsstaat" to keep a close eye on him.
I know you want me to delivere a source link but I gathered all this over the past days.
  #433  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:17
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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"Back in the bad old days" My experience is that Schengen did not make much difference. It was unusual when anybody checked my papers when crossing German borders and green crossings were rarely manned.
Exactly and it is till the same- Schengen or no Schengen. Different of course when you fly in, but this morning walking the dogs, I must have crossed the border several times without knowing it, and about 8 times out of 10 when I cross the official border post, there is no one there at all. Getting from Tunisia to France is so easy, and then from there to Germany is a piece of pie- Schengen makes no difference at all.

As for intelligence in Europe being useless- I wonder, will it improve with Brexit... or not.
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  #434  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:18
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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... but the whole security apparatus which seems to be incapacitated by bureaucracy and silly laws.
Can you name these silly laws?

It has always been the case in Europe (with the notable exception of West Berlin back in the day) that there were places where you could just walk across the border. There are even properties and villages that straddle International borders. On a much, much smaller scale, in my family home, my parents' bedroom was in different county to mine and my brother's bedroom.

Have you ever been to Oberndorf bei Salzburg? The River Salzach is the border there. This is replicated all over Europe.
  #435  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:18
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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He's been known to the police for a long time, for minor crimes (dealing), for having to leave the country (he was even in detention depending deportation, I know the papers to do that weren't here and yes I know the law very well concerning this but he came in so he could follow the order to get out - which he last night finally did ), for a while there was a judicial order to observe him, they found connections to extremist groups/people, he offered himself for a suicidal attack via internet .... surely that would be enough reason - even in a "Rechtsstaat" to keep a close eye on him.
I know you want me to delivere a source link but I gathered all this over the past days.
To keep a close eye on him day and night you would need a surveillance team of minimum four people full time (working 40 hour weeks) plus reserves for meal and toilet breaks. How practical is that?
  #436  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:19
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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lol, this must be the greatest myth of the migrant crisis. To think that they've walked thousands of miles, when there are busses, trains, cars, etc...

Extreme conditions, as in, normal weather? I haven't heard reports of any refugees heading to the North pole
Read "Bilal" by Fabrizio Gatti. It is very realistic ... but you might not wanna acknoledge that.
  #437  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:20
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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"Back in the bad old days" My experience is that Schengen did not make much difference. It was unusual when anybody checked my papers when crossing German borders and green crossings were rarely manned.
I'm talking 30 years ago.

Tom
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Old 23.12.2016, 14:23
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Exactly and it is till the same- Schengen or no Schengen.
Nonsense.

I was regularly checked up until Schengen, sometimes for just being near the border.

Just because things are lax in Romandie doesn't mean that all Swiss border guards are so lame.

Tom
  #439  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:25
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Heartless though this may seem ... 12 people died in Berlin. That's it. You want Europe locked down because of that?
You're right it was only 12 in Berlin, it was only 86 in Nice, it was only 130 in Paris (which could have been more if they got into the football stadium)^, it was only 56 in the UK, it was only 6 in Boston, it was only.........................you get the drift.

Its actually not just about the deaths, its about the fear and the disruption to normal daily life. That is their aim and right now they are making a very good job of it.
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  #440  
Old 23.12.2016, 14:29
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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"Back in the bad old days" My experience is that Schengen did not make much difference. It was unusual when anybody checked my papers when crossing German borders and green crossings were rarely manned.
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Nonsense.

I was regularly checked up until Schengen, sometimes for just being near the border.

Just because things are lax in Romandie doesn't mean that all Swiss border guards are so lame.

Tom
Last time I looked there were no German borders in Romandie.
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