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Old 31.12.2016, 16:08
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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the local families that were living off social welfare for generations. They literally did not know what working or a regular lifestyle was as they had no family member who ever did so for generations.
I agree, the social welfare system in W.Europe is ridiculous. Alot of the "refugees" that are coming in are well aware of that. To come here and have everything paid for free, ..food, housing, medical, etc.. is like winning the lottery for them. In the rest of the world, people never heard of such a thing, there if you don't work, you don't eat, period.
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  #662  
Old 31.12.2016, 17:28
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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I agree, the social welfare system in W.Europe is ridiculous. Alot of the "refugees" that are coming in are well aware of that. To come here and have everything paid for free, ..food, housing, medical, etc.. is like winning the lottery for them. In the rest of the world, people never heard of such a thing, there if you don't work, you don't eat, period.
it's actually worse. they are promised mountains of gold (in part through local propaganda from smugglers etc)

but then when they get here and don't instantly receive apartments, cars, women and other goodies they throw a tantrum. despite all the freebies sponsored by the taxpayer, they blame the west and/or the jews for betraying them.

cue violence.
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Old 31.12.2016, 17:52
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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it's actually worse. they are promised mountains of gold (in part through local propaganda from smugglers etc)

but then when they get here and don't instantly receive apartments, cars, women and other goodies they throw a tantrum. despite all the freebies sponsored by the taxpayer, they blame the west and/or the jews for betraying them.

cue violence.
Actually most times it's their - very extended - family at home who throw a tantrum because they don't receive money from those they sent abroad.
  #664  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:07
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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I agree, the social welfare system in W.Europe is ridiculous. Alot of the "refugees" that are coming in are well aware of that. To come here and have everything paid for free, ..food, housing, medical, etc.. is like winning the lottery for them. In the rest of the world, people never heard of such a thing, there if you don't work, you don't eat, period.
I lost the overview over the anti-immigration argument now. Last page you guys claimed they are coming to take the jobs of Eastern Europeans... now they are freeloading on the social system? What is it now?
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  #665  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:09
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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I lost the overview over the anti-immigration argument now. Last page you guys claimed they are coming to take the jobs of Eastern Europeans... now they are freeloading on the social system? What is it now?
Both?
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  #666  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:14
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Both?
Schrödingers immigrant.
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  #667  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:28
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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it's actually worse. they are promised mountains of gold (in part through local propaganda from smugglers etc)

but then when they get here and don't instantly receive apartments, cars, women and other goodies they throw a tantrum. despite all the freebies sponsored by the taxpayer, they blame the west and/or the jews for betraying them.

cue violence.
...or blame the EU society for being "racist". Look at France, they let in everyone from Africa and ME who wanted to come, they built apartments, housed and fed them, and what is the result? Millions of people leeching off the social system, and then blaming the French people for being racist against them.

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I lost the overview over the anti-immigration argument now. Last page you guys claimed they are coming to take the jobs of Eastern Europeans... now they are freeloading on the social system? What is it now?
All of the above. I hope you are taking notes and learning something. Bringing in millions of foreigners from a different culture who are mostly unskilled, can't speak the local language, etc. is going to result
in diverse stresses on the local economies and social structures. (PS- there is a big security threat too)
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Old 31.12.2016, 18:29
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Schrödingers immigrants.
ftfy
  #669  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:31
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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(PS- there is a big security threat too)
Yep, there were again nearly 1000 violent attacks on refugee shelters in Germany this year, 850 or so of which are clearly connected to right winged extremism.

Crime rate among immigrants dropped significantly over the last months according to the BKA (the German equivalent of the FBI). But people like to get their news from Facebook these days and obviously feel less secure.
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Old 31.12.2016, 18:37
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Yep, there were again nearly 1000 violent attacks on refugee shelters in Germany this year, 850 or so of which are clearly connected to right winged extremism.

Crime rate among immigrants dropped significantly over the last months according to the BKA (the German equivalent of the FBI). But people like to get their news from Facebook these days and obviously feel less secure.
Well, maybe we have to start looking at this from a completely new angle (well, new to us, not to the majority posting on this thread): If they hadn't let those refugees into Germany, there would be no such shelters, therefore nothing to attack = it is the refugees fault. Or Merkels? Or both?
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  #671  
Old 31.12.2016, 18:43
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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I agree, the social welfare system in W.Europe is ridiculous. Alot of the "refugees" that are coming in are well aware of that. To come here and have everything paid for free, ..food, housing, medical, etc.. is like winning the lottery for them. In the rest of the world, people never heard of such a thing, there if you don't work, you don't eat, period.
You can either have a welfare state or you can have open borders. As long as you have both, it'll never work.

I'd rather do away with the welfare state.
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Old 31.12.2016, 18:45
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

Meanwhile, a German police commissioner has said that Germany has imported criminality.

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/arti...mportiert.html
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Old 31.12.2016, 19:20
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Meanwhile, a German police commissioner has said that Germany has imported criminality.

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/arti...mportiert.html
To many people coming to Europe the constitutional state system is weak. What's the worst that can happen? You get a jail sentence. And although for some cultures being locked up is even more painful than for us - it's still comparably comfortable here.

There is still no way I'd give up our system though.

The main thing is that deportation - still - does not work because our sense of justice/judicial system does not allow shifting people out without identification. That is something that needs basic revision. If someone was granted an Asylum procedure under a certain name, claiming to have a certain nationality that's the name and nationality that should be used for deportation. If he/she ends up in the wron country - their problem. Our system lacks consequence.
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Old 31.12.2016, 19:30
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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I lost the overview over the anti-immigration argument now. Last page you guys claimed they are coming to take the jobs of Eastern Europeans... now they are freeloading on the social system? What is it now?
Here's the most decorated economist in history explaining it to you



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WHY IS IT THAT FREE IMMIGRATION WAS A GOOD THING BEFORE 1914 AND FREE IMMIGRATION IS A BAD THING TODAY? …. THERE’S A SENSE IN WHICH FREE IMMIGRATION, IN THE SAME SENSE AS WE HAD IT BEFORE 1914 IS NOT POSSIBLE TODAY. WHY NOT?

BECAUSE IT IS ONE THING TO HAVE FREE IMMIGRATION TO JOBS. IT IS ANOTHER THING TO HAVE FREE IMMIGRATION TO WELFARE. AND YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. IF YOU HAVE A WELFARE STATE, IF YOU HAVE A STATE IN WHICH EVERY RESIDENT IS PROMISES A CERTAIN MINIMAL LEVEL OF INCOME, OR A MINIMUM LEVEL OF SUBSISTENCE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE WORKS OR NOT, PRODUCES IT OR NOT. THEN IT REALLY IS AN IMPOSSIBLE THING.
this of course ignores completely the violence and crime aspect which has been repeatedly shown to us imposes a very considerable additional cost on society.
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Old 31.12.2016, 19:40
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Here's the most decorated economist in history explaining it to you

this of course ignores completely the violence and crime aspect which has been repeatedly shown to us imposes a very considerable additional cost on society.
Guess most of us know this speech.
While principally this is something to be thought about, an American saying about America: <<In a state where every resident is promised a minimum level of income or a minimum level of subsistence regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not .... >>
makes me laugh!
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Old 31.12.2016, 19:54
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Well, maybe we have to start looking at this from a completely new angle (well, new to us, not to the majority posting on this thread): If they hadn't let those refugees into Germany, there would be no such shelters, therefore nothing to attack = it is the refugees fault. Or Merkels? Or both?
Regardless of Merkel there were/are always refugees, migrants and shelter.
It is like some people believe there were no asylum seekers before Merkel; come on, get real.

I will anyway repeat "can anybody actually provide a source of Merkel inviting as many refugees as want to come to come"? This is repeated so often, but a source?
  #677  
Old 31.12.2016, 19:56
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Meanwhile, a German police commissioner has said that Germany has imported criminality.

https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/arti...mportiert.html
Lucky guy; he now has job security
  #678  
Old 31.12.2016, 19:58
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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You can either have a welfare state or you can have open borders. As long as you have both, it'll never work.

I'd rather do away with the welfare state.
But the EU does not have open borders so you must be happy
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Old 31.12.2016, 19:58
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Guess most of us know this speech.
While principally this is something to be thought about, an American saying about America: <<In a state where every resident is promised a minimum level of income or a minimum level of subsistence regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not .... >>
makes me laugh!
If you know the speech you'd know he's not talking about America - but does use that as an example to explain when immigration is virtuous and when not.
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Old 31.12.2016, 20:00
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Re: Truck crashes into a Berlin Christmas market

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Regardless of Merkel there were/are always refugees, migrants and shelter.
It is like some people believe there were no asylum seekers before Merkel; come on, get real.

I will anyway repeat "can anybody actually provide a source of Merkel inviting as many refugees as want to come to come"? This is repeated so often, but a source?
You did notice that I was being sarcastic? But only on the post about changing the basic view.

@parnell <<
If you know the speech you'd know he's not talking about America - but does use that as an example to explain when immigration is virtuous and when not. >>
ofcourse. ROFL.
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