Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21.12.2016, 01:06
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,866
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/eu-...id5923518.html

The Swiss army are expecting an exception to the rules.... (tidied up Google translate follows)

Switzerland is being threatened by a new European political situation, before discussing the takeover of EU arms legislation

On Tuesday, the EU Member States gave the go-ahead for a stricter right to arms. If the EU Parliament agrees, Switzerland will have to adopt the new rules as a Schengen State.

However, the restrictions go much less than initially planned. After the terrorist attacks of Paris, the EU Commission had proposed to largely eliminate the use of semi-automatic firearms, which are widely used among shooters. In addition, arms owners should regularly undergo a psychological assessment.

In June, the Swiss diplomacy succeeded in making a special provision for the Swiis Army Assault Rifle in the directive. The rest played the powerplay of the arms industry and the shooting and hunting associations. They argued that terrorists did not operate with legally acquired weapons anyway.

The opposition has had an effect: in some violent disputes with the Commission, the EU states and the relevant EU parliamentary committee have tightened the firearm directive in the last few months.

The obligation to examine medical-psychological before the acquisition of a weapon is no longer included in the adjusted draft.

The planned ban on semi-automatic assault guns, which look like fully automatic war weapons, has also been deleted. The Commission wanted to get rid of the most dangerous weapons, but had to accept the accusation that this could hardly be done with such undefined regulations.

The most significant change from a Swiss perspective is the limitation of magazine capacity. Rifle magazines with more than ten rounds are to be prohibited. In today's shooting, magazines are shot with up to 20 shots. In other disciplines larger magazines are also used. The capacity of gun magazines is limited at 20 shots, which exceeds the usual sizes anyway.

Also no longer permitted are semi-automatic weapons, which are fired from the shoulder and which measure less than 60 centimeters with the shaft retracted. This mainly affects civilian machine guns. The Kalaschnikow-"Sturmgewehr", which has repeatedly been used in terrorist attacks, falls just under the ban with 64.5 centimeters in length.

The blacklist of the EU also includes fully automatic firearms, which have been converted into semi-automatic ones. This corresponds to the Swiss legal situation, with an exception for army weapons.

Museums, collectors or sportsmen who regularly train and participate in competitions may also buy the basically forbidden weapons.

In Switzerland, the restrictions are likely to cause angry responses without exception. Less controversial are the regulations on the preservation (storage?) of weapons, restrictions on online trading, and uniform standards for disarming weapons. In Paris, an assassin shot a gun in a Jewish supermarket in January 2015 with a weapon that had been rendered unusable but then reactivated.

Following the decision of the Committee of the Permanent Representatives of the Member States (COREPER) on Tuesday, the European Parliament will probably decide on 14 March 2017.

The Swiss timetable for implementation is not yet known. The Federal Police Office did not wish to comment on the amendment of the firearms directive before the definitive adoption. If Switzerland does not accept the new rules, the Schengen exclusion is threatened. (SDA)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 21.12.2016, 01:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,581
Groaned at 304 Times in 231 Posts
Thanked 19,660 Times in 6,852 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Another brilliant plan from the EU. I predict world peace within a week
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 21.12.2016, 07:34
lost_inbroad's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Town or region
Posts: 11,491
Groaned at 655 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 16,388 Times in 6,379 Posts
lost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond reputelost_inbroad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

It's quite amusing how the EU is imposing restrictions on our weapons when all that nonsense happened on their turf.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank lost_inbroad for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 21.12.2016, 08:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Are they going to ban lorries too?
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 21.12.2016, 08:52
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Good luck trying to enforce this in Bulgaria.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 21.12.2016, 09:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,075
Groaned at 2,417 Times in 1,758 Posts
Thanked 39,081 Times in 18,427 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Bye-bye Schengen.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 21.12.2016, 09:30
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,180
Groaned at 347 Times in 280 Posts
Thanked 23,353 Times in 8,438 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
On Tuesday, the EU Member States gave the go-ahead for a stricter right to arms. If the EU Parliament agrees, Switzerland will have to adopt the new rules as a Schengen State.
This part is of course utter bullshit. Schengen has nothing to do with arms laws. Switzerland has the most liberal approach to the topic in Europe, the UK the strictest. The gun lobby is increadibly strong in many EU countries like Germany and Italy and in the end will nothing happen... the original plan was to ban all semi auto guns with magazines of more than six shots. By now the law has been changed to guns with a capacity of over 21 rounds...

From 15:30 on:
https://www.zdf.de/comedy/heute-show...-2016-102.html
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
This user groans at Treverus for this post:
  #8  
Old 21.12.2016, 09:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,997
Groaned at 348 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 16,161 Times in 8,220 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
Good luck trying to enforce this in Bulgaria.
Indeed, cause there're basically no automatic and semi-automatic guns over there...

That might be difficult in Italy though, for instance.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 21.12.2016, 10:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, cause there're basically no automatic and semi-automatic guns over there...
Seriously?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21.12.2016, 10:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,997
Groaned at 348 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 16,161 Times in 8,220 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
Seriously?
Compared to other EU countries? I guess not.

I can't find any statics for the moment but this would help one to have an idea....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 21.12.2016, 10:25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 64
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 76 Times in 38 Posts
Artax has earned some respectArtax has earned some respect
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
This part is of course utter bullshit. Schengen has nothing to do with arms laws.
I'm not sure where you get this from- it absolutely has everything to do with the last tightening of weapon laws in Switzerland (2008). The fact that the UK chose to practically ban everything in the late 1990s has nothing to do with Schengen and was done unilaterally.

I'm not sure exactly how this law will affect me, as the exemption is quite vague ("swiss army rifle"). I have a privatized 'swiss army rifle' that I use for sport shooting (stgw90).

While some people will be inherently happy about the tightening of rules, it won't make anyone safer. The EU is justifying the legislation as a reactionary measure against terrorists, but there is no terrorist problem with legally acquired and licensed firearms. If anyone wants to fight this legislation they should join protell.ch.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Artax for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 21.12.2016, 10:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
Compared to other EU countries? I guess not.

I can't find any statics for the moment but this would help one to have an idea....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country
Interesting to compare that list of gun ownership with lists concerning gun homicides, and how they don't seem to correlate at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 21.12.2016, 10:36
FunnyBone's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 868
Groaned at 40 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 1,272 Times in 555 Posts
FunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

This law will mostly affect the law-abiding citizen (again), while those who acquire them illegally will continue to do so despite what the law says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country - I think this page shows only legally sold weapons.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank FunnyBone for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 21.12.2016, 11:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,997
Groaned at 348 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 16,161 Times in 8,220 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
Interesting to compare that list of gun ownership with lists concerning gun homicides, and how they don't seem to correlate at all.
Indeed, but in the gun related-deaths list that you probably saw

Quote:
It should be noted that the following list includes suicides, accidental fatalities, and justifiable homicides.

I'm thinking for instance of the cases I read about from back home - with one or two exceptions gun related deaths were suicides (not that there were too many, anyway) committed by people who legally possessed them (e.g. militaries...weird, the depression rate among them is quite high apparently).
I'm not saying it's the same everywhere, but numbers alone don't say much, indeed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

Edit: I had the impression USA wasn't on that list lol...must have coffee. At least in my country's case gun possession rate vs. gun-related deaths do correlate - very low both.

Last edited by greenmount; 21.12.2016 at 11:57.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21.12.2016, 14:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,506
Groaned at 500 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 12,612 Times in 6,550 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
This part is of course utter bullshit. Schengen has nothing to do with arms laws. Switzerland has the most liberal approach to the topic in Europe, the UK the strictest. The gun lobby is increadibly strong in many EU countries like Germany and Italy and in the end will nothing happen... the original plan was to ban all semi auto guns with magazines of more than six shots. By now the law has been changed to guns with a capacity of over 21 rounds...

From 15:30 on:
https://www.zdf.de/comedy/heute-show...-2016-102.html
Except it isn't, and yes it does, NZZ says the same.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 21.12.2016, 14:41
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,043
Groaned at 231 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 5,919 Times in 2,169 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
Are they going to ban lorries too?
Surely everyone would be happy if they banned Christmas Markets instead?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 21.12.2016, 14:58
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,180
Groaned at 347 Times in 280 Posts
Thanked 23,353 Times in 8,438 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure where you get this from- it absolutely has everything to do with the last tightening of weapon laws in Switzerland (2008).
Quote:
View Post
Except it isn't, and yes it does, NZZ says the same.
It might be a weird hobby, but I actually read the Schengen contract before... and it has absolutely nothing to do with this. None of the newspapers explained the connection but simply stated "as a Schengen state will Switzerland have to follow" which makes no sense.

The last changes did include some items that were done "due to Schengen", but that was simply to add clauses on international weapons trade in it: Within Schengen is it rather simple, outside of Schengen do you need to follow some strict process to make sure you are not supplying some warlord. None of this is actually due to the Schengen treaty, but the overall streamlining of European laws. Pretty much the same reason why Swiss driving licenses look the same as EU ones...

This does not mean that Switzerland has in any way to follow any EU law if it decides not to do so. Schengen is simply the freedom of movement. Not the freedom of goods. Thats why there are still border controls not for your passport, but the stuff you buy abroad. If CH decided to not change the gun laws could the other countries simply search the cars crossing the border. Having a full auto assault rifle like most Swiss men would cost you in Germany "not under 3 years", so I think the laws are in place alreads, no matter what happens with semi-automatic weapons in the EU.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 21.12.2016, 15:14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 64
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 76 Times in 38 Posts
Artax has earned some respectArtax has earned some respect
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post

This does not mean that Switzerland has in any way to follow any EU law if it decides not to do so. Schengen is simply the freedom of movement. Not the freedom of goods. Thats why there are still border controls not for your passport, but the stuff you buy abroad. If CH decided to not change the gun laws could the other countries simply search the cars crossing the border. Having a full auto assault rifle like most Swiss men would cost you in Germany "not under 3 years", so I think the laws are in place alreads, no matter what happens with semi-automatic weapons in the EU.
Not true.

"In Articles 77 to 91 of the Schengen II Convention, the control of weapons and ammunition are set out in detail. Regulations regarding which weapons may only be possessed with a valid licence, and which weapons are free, are either contained in the convention itself or may be subject to further legislation at the EU (Schengen) level. Accordingly, the Schengen rules also harmonize the prerequisites for granting permits to produce, purchase, and trade in weapons and ammunition. The according Schengen rules are supplemented by the Council Directive 91/477/EEC of 18 June 1991 on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons,[85] which introduced a European Firearms Pass which entitles the holder to carry a firearm into the territory of other Member States."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Artax for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 21.12.2016, 16:08
California Dreamer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,081
Groaned at 176 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 1,194 Times in 616 Posts
California Dreamer has annoyed a few people around hereCalifornia Dreamer has annoyed a few people around here
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
In addition, arms owners should regularly undergo a psychological assessment.
This^

Plus,
Banning private ownership without regulating manufacturer output will only flood the black market. If they are serious about gun control then it has to start with the manufacturers and it has to be a world wide effort. It's far too easy to purchase black market pistols made in Israel or Russia for example. Reduce output and moniter those who have them is far more effective but then we run into the whole medical confidentiality problem. Almost all of the mass shooters (in the U.S) in recent years were all on anti psychotic drugs like ritalin. Had the doctors the legal right to inform the athorities and the athorities the legal right to remove all firearms from the household we might have halfed said attacks. Might. If a person is willing..........
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank California Dreamer for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 21.12.2016, 16:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,506
Groaned at 500 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 12,612 Times in 6,550 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: EU tries to ban automatic and semi automatic weapons

Quote:
View Post
This^

Plus,
Banning private ownership without regulating manufacturer output will only flood the black market.
Which EU or Schengen countries don't already regulate manufacturers and traders?

Note:
Neither this land nor this thread is about the USA.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gun control, weapons




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
B(EU) to C permit automatic, disadvantages? tp_sale Permits/visas/government 45 27.01.2019 07:52
Automatic right to work permit? evianers Permits/visas/government 1 12.03.2008 12:06


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0