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  #21  
Old 10.01.2017, 20:47
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Funny how everyone else gets to keep their own way of life, but the indigenous English have to "adapt". Bugger that
I think you just defined modern multiculturalism: The promotion and celebration of each and every culture - except that of the host country.
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  #22  
Old 10.01.2017, 21:11
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

Nope- everyone has to adapt, give and take- both hosts and guests- here, there and anywhere- including in my home (see food intolerance thread).
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  #23  
Old 10.01.2017, 21:31
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Nope- everyone has to adapt, give and take- both hosts and guests- here, there and anywhere- including in my home (see food intolerance thread).
But in a melting pot like the UK, if the Brits have to adapt (even a little bit) for every single culture that now calls the UK home then wouldn't there be a possibility that their own culture starts to become unrecognizable? (Refer to the thread title )

Why would the host culture have to adapt anyway? If you can't integrate in a country without the people changing their culture just to accomodate you then perhaps you shouldn't be moving there in the first place?
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Old 10.01.2017, 21:32
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Nope- everyone has to adapt, give and take- both hosts and guests- here, there and anywhere- including in my home (see food intolerance thread).
That's a rather facile comparison.

A more accurate one would be somebody coming to your house and demanding that you stop having bottles of wine in your cellar, even if you had no intention of making them have any.

Demanding that Border Morris men stop blacking up because it used to be fashionable to wear similar make up while playing the banjo and rolling one's eyes is absurd. It's even more absurd when you see who is making the demand!

Should Spanish Roman Catholics stop wearing conical hoods because a Moroccan finds their similarity to KKK hoods offensive?

Should Swiss people stop having bonfires on August 1st because a Tibetan finds their similarity to the fires used to burn English witches offensive?

I've been a firm believer in multiculturalism for a long time, and I repeat: it's either for everybody or it's for nobody.

These kids are playing a really dangerous game. More dangerous than they realise.
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Old 10.01.2017, 21:34
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Well yes... and no. It used to be very normal to have gollywogs, and some people had serving tables/stands in the shape of a black man, etc - and here to buy chocolates called 'nigger's head' - but the world has changed, no? Even Switzerland realised it made sense to change the name to 'choco head', 20 years ago.

I can understand why some people would find it offensive, especially if not aware of the historical roots. It would be perfectly OK for groups of Morris dancers not to blacken faces- in fact most of them don't. Would it really bother you?

Of course the behaviour of the objectors in this case were totally OTT and unacceptable.
Its because of people like you that these non worthy new stories actually make the news.
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  #26  
Old 10.01.2017, 21:40
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Yeah, I can use google too.

But it doesn't change a thing. The sensitivities of ignorant people are no reason to change ancient traditions.
Agreed.
To me, any challenge to something as innocuous as Morris dancing, which has always been more of a tribute act than anything derogatory, is straying into the realms or rewriting /denying history. Does it mean we have to boycot drinking in The Lower Turk's Head or The King's Head? Nah. Not happening.
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  #27  
Old 10.01.2017, 21:50
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

Oh, I get it now: all cultures are equal, but some cultures are more equal than others.
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  #28  
Old 10.01.2017, 21:55
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

A not entirely unrelated anecdote: back when I lived in England, I was involved in a special programme for unaccompanied minor asylum seekers. My job was to prepare them for job interviews, dealing with landlords, going to the dentist, that kind of thing. I was pretty much as I am now: a gobshite, but eager to get things done and done properly. Most of my colleagues were much the same. Actual PC attitudes don't tend to last very long in such an environment.

One woman, however, was like something out of a comic book. She was a living PC offence-taking-machine. I didn't pay her much attention, because she was actually a bit thick, but I knew that sooner or later my time would come. Nobody escaped the wagging finger for long!

When it came, I quite enjoyed it. I had used the expression "taking the mick" with the students. Once I'd explained it, they enjoyed using it. It made me smile - using idiomatic English is a big step towards being "normal" and accepted as a newcomer - but the look on her face could have frozen fire.

She took me aside and explained - as if to an idiot - that the phrase "taking the mick" is offensive to Irish people. I looked at her. She looked at me. I tried not to laugh. Then I laughed.

"Don't talk cobblers," I replied. "It's an abbreviated euphemism: taking the mick = taking the micturition = taking the piss. It has nothing to do with Irish people whatsoever."

I'd never heard anyone "harrumph" outside a comic strip before. She wasn't at all please with having her erroneous pedantry out-pedanted.

She hardly spoke to me again the whole summer.

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  #29  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:06
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

So in the USA, for instance, who should adapt to whom?
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Old 10.01.2017, 22:12
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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So in the USA, for instance, who should adapt to whom?
You know we're talking about Birmingham, Warks, not Birmingham AL, right?
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  #31  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:15
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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So in the USA, for instance, who should adapt to whom?
It's fair to say that in the US the natives adapted more to the immigrants than in the UK...
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  #32  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:34
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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It's fair to say that in the US the natives adapted more to the immigrants than in the UK...
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  #33  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:37
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Nope- everyone has to adapt, give and take- both hosts and guests- here, there and anywhere- including in my home (see food intolerance thread).
Would you not have butter on the table if you had a Vegan to supper? Serious question.
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  #34  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:43
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

Not sure about butter- I might have some on the table, but wouldn't expect them to have some, and I would not cook with any thinking 'oh they'll never know'.

When Muslim friends come to dinner, we don't drink wine or other alcohol though- and we would either have halal meat or cook vegetarian or fish.

Each case is different-but we will at least try to get it right, and consider each case. And yes, I agree, it is not always easy.
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  #35  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:50
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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So in the USA, for instance, who should adapt to whom?
New arrivals should adapt to the status quo.

Illegals even moreso.

Tom
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  #36  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:54
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Its actually pretty much everyone in Brum and not just the morris dancers that are racist.

You should hear the things they call people from Walsall. Tamworth, Coventry and Wolverhampton.

Residents of the Black Country being mean to each other?

There's a better joke to be made from those ingredients but I have a teething one year old at zzzzzzzzzzzz
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  #37  
Old 10.01.2017, 22:56
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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When Muslim friends come to dinner, we don't drink wine or other alcohol though- and we would either have halal meat or cook vegetarian or fish.
I've had Moslem friends to dinner (Jews too, some orthodox).

They were free not to drink the alcohol, eat the pork, shellfish, etc.

I fail to see the need to not consume these things myself.

I also have vegetarian friends over. I still cook meat for the rest of us.

Tom
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  #38  
Old 10.01.2017, 23:03
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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I've had Moslem friends to dinner (Jews too, some orthodox).

They were free not to drink the alcohol, eat the pork, shellfish, etc.

I fail to see the need to not consume these things myself.

I also have vegetarian friends over. I still cook meat for the rest of us.

Tom
We were invited to Muslim friends' for traditional Mauritanian couscous once; I was offered beer and we all had a cognac afterwards.
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  #39  
Old 10.01.2017, 23:07
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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We were invited to Muslim friends' for traditional Mauritanian couscous once; I was offered beer and we all had a cognac afterwards.
One of my happiest memories of a trip to Istanbul was getting horribly drunk on Chivas Regal with a Sufi and discussing Islamic theology.
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Old 10.01.2017, 23:25
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Re: Morris Dancers accused of racism in Brum

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Not sure about butter- I might have some on the table, but wouldn't expect them to have some, and I would not cook with any thinking 'oh they'll never know'.

When Muslim friends come to dinner, we don't drink wine or other alcohol though- and we would either have halal meat or cook vegetarian or fish.

Each case is different-but we will at least try to get it right, and consider each case. And yes, I agree, it is not always easy.
My moslem friends wouldn't dream of expecting me not to drink wine. And I don't buy halal meat when they come over, beef, chicken etc. has to do. And it does.

If I cook for only a few I'll cook something we all eat ... a barbeque is easy, there's something for everybody.

My friends want me as I am - that's why they made me their friend. So I don't need to bend to their lifestyle.
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