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Guest 22.02.2017 14:33

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745108)
Thanks Phos, a straight answer. Appreciate it.

Now then Loz...

You believe Milo should be welcomed and celebrated by the Conservative movement in spite of his views on statutory rape and pedophilia. You, personally, see no conflict in a conservative movement endorsing a man with contradicting views regarding sex with children.

Just endorse the above with a simple 'yes, i agree' and we can all move on.

Thanks in advance.

Have you actually read what I've written?

Blueangel 22.02.2017 14:43

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745150)
Have you actually paid attention to what he has said?

I've watched the video in question and I appreciate his reference to a Catholic priest was tongue in cheek, but it's what he said after that crossed the line. You cannot, in a civilised society, make puberty the dividing line between statutory rape/abuse and a healthy sexual relationship, which is what Milo said.

J2488 22.02.2017 14:44

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2744869)
If it were my conference then I wouldn't have rescinded the invitation based on the released recording.

But it's not my conference, it's the ACU's conference. Therefore it's entirely up to them.

Satisfied now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2744912)
So, no, the ACU should not have rescinded the invitation, because of Milo's beliefs and views regarding pedophilia.

In other words, you believe that with his views that a sexual relationship between a minor and an adult are not a problem, and despite the clear and real risk of the conservative movement being seen to be party to such views, he should still have been given a platform at a Conservative conference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2744926)
Ooooh, you were saving that up weren't you? Does it feel good to get if off your chest?

But to be clear, and not to have you misrepresent what I wrote:

The ACU are free to choose who they please to have speak at their conference.
I believe what you are saying are "his views" are not his views, he clarified this yesterday.
I don't believe "his views" are a problem based on what he would have been talking about at the conference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2744936)
He could have been leading a 4 hour discussion on the impact of the teletubbies on municipal architecture, but it still doesn't get away from the fact that you believe that a man who views paedophilia as an acceptable construct, should be associated with the Conservative movement.

You suggest he should be welcomed and celebrated by the Conservative movement in spite of his views on statutory rape and paedophilia.

I'm not sure you know what 'Conservative' actually means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2744953)
He has clarified yesterday in great detail what his views are.

Roman Polanski is a convicted paedophile. He won an Oscar in 2003. Does that mean the Oscars are associated with paedophiles? Does that mean the Oscars celebrate paedophiles? Does that mean the Oscars view paedophilia as an acceptable construct?

Take your time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745016)
It means the Oscars are associated with a man who is a convicted pedophile, yes.

Lets ignore the fact that The Oscars and the American Conservative Union are two very different beasts you're trying to conflate, in order to maintain an increasingly precarious point. One is based on artistic merit, the other on political beliefs but hey ho.

Now, back to the matter at hand:

You believe Milo should be welcomed and celebrated by the Conservative movement in spite of his views on statutory rape and pedophilia. You, personally, see no conflict in a conservative movement endorsing a man with contradicting views regarding sex with children.

Stop pussyfooting around it and declare it.

Didn't really take long, that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2745105)
So it's okay to endorse paedophiles as long as it's based on "artistic merit". Glad we sorted that out.

Many American Conservatives are anti-gay. Many American Conservatives have very, well, conservative views regarding sexual liberation, religion, legal drinking age etc. etc. So all things considered, Milo wasn't probably a good choice of speaker for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745108)
Thanks Phos, a straight answer. Appreciate it.

Now then Loz...

You believe Milo should be welcomed and celebrated by the Conservative movement in spite of his views on statutory rape and pedophilia. You, personally, see no conflict in a conservative movement endorsing a man with contradicting views regarding sex with children.

Just endorse the above with a simple 'yes, i agree' and we can all move on.

Thanks in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745113)
No it isn't ok to endorse them on artistic merit, but no one in this conversation said it was.

And regardless of Milo being a good choice or a bad choice (something Phos has already covered) i bring your attention back to the previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2745153)
Have you actually read what I've written?

With great anticipation.

Guest 22.02.2017 14:51

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2745160)
I've watched the video in question and I appreciate his reference to a Catholic priest was tongue in cheek, but it's what he said after that crossed the line. You cannot, in a civilised society, make puberty the dividing line between statutory rape/abuse and a healthy sexual relationship, which is what Milo said.

I think Milo screwed himself regardless. He was trying to delineate between puberty and age of consent, which varies from one "civilization" to another. In any case, he wasn't condoning pedophilia.

But we know people are not typically able to discern to this level of detail. Scandal and outrage serve political agendas better.

J2488 22.02.2017 14:53

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745165)
I think Milo screwed himself regardless. He was trying to delineate between puberty and age of consent, which varies from one "civilization" to another. In any case, he wasn't condoning pedophilia.

But we know people are not typically able to discern to this level of detail. Scandal and outrage serve political agendas better.

Correction, this is the most convoluted excuse yet.

Guest 22.02.2017 14:55

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745165)
I think Milo screwed himself regardless. He was trying to delineate between puberty and age of consent, which varies from one "civilization" to another. In any case, he wasn't condoning pedophilia.

That post would be so much better finished off if it ended with "Your Honour".

What, between Milo "screwing himself regardless" and all the semantics around whether or not his actions border on paedophilia, he certainly doesn't sound like someone you'd take home to your mother... :eek:

Guest 22.02.2017 14:59

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745170)
Correction, this is the most convoluted excuse yet.

Excuse for what?

Blueangel 22.02.2017 15:01

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745165)
In any case, he wasn't condoning pedophilia.

But we know people are not typically able to discern to this level of detail. Scandal and outrage serve political agendas better.

At one end of the scale, he was excusing it, at the other, he was actually promoting it as potentially beneficial.

I'm not at all outraged by this. He likes to dip his toe over 'the line' on so many other issues, so it was only a matter of time before he crossed the wrong one. I'm just surprised that it came so soon. I honestly thought he'd ride the crest of the notoriety wave for a few years yet.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:05

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745165)
I think Milo screwed himself regardless. He was trying to delineate between puberty and age of consent, which varies from one "civilization" to another. In any case, he wasn't condoning pedophilia.

But we know people are not typically able to discern to this level of detail. Scandal and outrage serve political agendas better.

Americans can be pretty nuts where these things are concerned. When I was working as Camp Counselor many many years ago in the States, another Counselor (French, 18) got a bit close to one of the campers who was 16 and ended up necking her on one of the disco nights.

I thought he'd be out of a job and that'd be that, but the camp called the police! They wanted to get the poor sod done with statutory rape! The reaction across most of the rest of the western world would just be a shrug.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:07

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2745182)
At one end of the scale, he was excusing it, at the other, he was actually promoting it as potentially beneficial.

I'm not at all outraged by this. He likes to dip his toe over 'the line' on so many other issues, so it was only a matter of time before he crossed the wrong one. I'm just surprised that it came so soon. I honestly thought he'd ride the crest of the notoriety wave for a few years yet.

In this case, it seems it was the Conservative side that shot him down. A large faction of Conservatives are really better describes as Traditionalists or Religious, and the thought of Milo did not sit well with them as CPAC keynote speaker.

We have plenty of homosexual conservatives; e.g., Log Cabin, Thiel, etc. In the Conservative tent are Libertarians as well as Traditionalists. Homosexuality somewhat already denote a Libertarian streak somewhat.

I'm not sure CPAC is really the venue for one group to try to dominate the other. Its divisive and counterproductive.

Blueangel 22.02.2017 15:11

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2745186)
I thought he'd be out of a job and that'd be that, but the camp called the police! They wanted to get the poor sod done with statutory rape!

Depends which state you were in. Many have the age of consent as 17 or 18.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:12

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2745182)
I'm just surprised that it came so soon. I honestly thought he'd ride the crest of the notoriety wave for a few years yet.

You really thing this will be the end for him?

He will only become bigger.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:13

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2745193)
You really thing this will be the end for him?

He will only become bigger.

You mean like when you pick at a pimple?

Blueangel 22.02.2017 15:16

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745187)
In this case, it seems it was the Conservative side that shot him down. A large faction of Conservatives are really better describes as Traditionalists or Religious, and the thought of Milo did not sit well with them as CPAC keynote speaker.

Agreed, but even if he was heterosexual, I believe he'd have got the same reaction if his comments were refering to any sexual relationship between an adult and someone who is legally under age. A proponent of that viewpoint cannot and should not share a platform with the POTUS.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:19

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2745196)
Agreed, but even if he was heterosexual, I believe he'd have got the same reaction if his comments were refering to any sexual relationship between an adult and someone who is legally under age. A proponent of that viewpoint cannot and should not share a platform with the POTUS.

So what we see here in this case is that virtue-signalling and PC patrolling does take place on the Republican side of things as well. Although it is not to the same heights Liberals have taken it.

Blueangel 22.02.2017 15:26

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2745193)
You really thing this will be the end for him?

He will only become bigger.

We've all seen people cast into the abyss for far less. I doubt he could even get a gig on Celebrity Big Brother after this. :D If anything, I think he'll revert back to being an internet troll until he gets himself arrested. Do you see a way back for him? Honestly?

J2488 22.02.2017 15:28

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 2745201)
So what we see here in this case is that virtue-signalling and PC patrolling does take place on the Republican side of things as well. Although it is not to the same heights Liberals have taken it.

So, refusing to give a prestigious, public platform to a man who believes, and i quote:

Quote:

there are certainly people who are capable of giving consent at a younger [than legal] age, I certainly consider myself to be one of them, people who are sexually active younger. I think it particularly happens in the gay world by the way. In many cases actually those relationships with older menÖThis is one reason I hate the left. This stupid one size fits all policing of culture. . This sort of arbitrary and oppressive idea of consent, which totally destroys you know understanding that many of us have. The complexities and subtleties and complicated nature of many relationships. You know, people are messy and complex. In the homosexual world particularly. Some of those relationships between younger boys and older men, the sort of coming of age relationships, the relationships in which those older men help those young boys to discover who they are, and give them security and safety and provide them with love and a reliable and sort of a rock where they canít speak to their parents
and

Quote:

Pedophilia is not a sexual attraction to somebody 13-years-old who is sexually mature. Pedophilia is attraction to children who have not reached puberty. Pedophilia is attraction to people who donít have functioning sex organs yet.
That is merely 'Virtue signalling' and 'PC Patrolling' is it?

J2488 22.02.2017 15:29

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
It amazes me the lengths certain right-wing people will go to, to defend their demagogues. The amount of bending-over-backwards would embarrass even the most prestigious of acrobatic circus performers.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:31

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2745208)
We've all seen people cast into the abyss for far less. I doubt he could even get a gig on Celebrity Big Brother after this. :D If anything, I think he'll revert back to being an internet troll until he gets himself arrested. Do you see a way back for him? Honestly?

This depends on what he has to offer, and if there truly is a need for it. He can certainly get his book published.

We certainly need to break the stranglehold on free speech in the US, and certainly need more diversification of ideas. I think he would have to widen his product line, such as providing a platform for other provocateurs.

He has a chance and the position to continue on. How he executes it remains to be seen.

Guest 22.02.2017 15:32

Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2745213)
It amazes me the lengths certain right-wing people will go to, to defend their demagogues. The amount of bending-over-backwards would embarrass even the most prestigious of acrobatic circus performers.

It's entertaining on a slow afternoon, though. :D

Just the right amount of "Ewww!" to make you read what comes next...


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