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  #241  
Old 23.02.2017, 10:53
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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a British teacher ran away to France a few years ago with a 15 year old consenting pupil. According to UK law he's a paedophile. In my book, and in Germany and in Portugal, he's definitely not.
Yes he is a Paedophile, that you think its acceptable for a teacher to sleep with an underage child speaks volumes about your views on the world. Just because its not illegal in some countries for a child of 15 to have consensual sex, it doesn't mean that somebody almost twice their age, in a position of responsibilty and who should know better, should be having sex with them. Just because in some countries its legal to wed a child at thirteen doesn't make it right either, I am certain if it was an Islamic country you would have something to say about that! Or as you have mentioned before about the child grooming rings!

Most of the time your logic is baffling.
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  #242  
Old 23.02.2017, 11:14
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Yes he is a Paedophile, that you think its acceptable for a teacher to sleep with an underage child speaks volumes about your views on the world. Just because its not illegal in some countries for a child of 15 to have consensual sex, it doesn't mean that somebody almost twice their age, in a position of responsibilty and who should know better, should be having sex with them. Just because in some countries its legal to wed a child at thirteen doesn't make it right either, I am certain if it was an Islamic country you would have something to say about that! Or as you have mentioned before about the child grooming rings!

Most of the time your logic is baffling.
I really wish you would read what has been written before launching into your diatribe.

I don't think it's acceptable for a teacher to sleep with a pupil.
In this case, sleeping with a consenting girl of 15, doesn't make him a paedophile in my opinion.
The point of this example was to illustrate there are no black and white rules what will always work regarding sex with a minor. Therefore topic about where the line is drawn should be up for discussion.
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  #243  
Old 23.02.2017, 11:30
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I really wish you would read what has been written before launching into your diatribe.

I don't think it's acceptable for a teacher to sleep with a pupil.
In this case, sleeping with a consenting girl of 15, doesn't make him a paedophile in my opinion.
The point of this example was to illustrate there are no black and white rules what will always work regarding sex with a minor. Therefore topic about where the line is drawn should be up for discussion.
I'm not sure what your point is, though. Are you saying the law should change to "interpret" the relationship on a case-by-case basis?

In this case, it seems that the girl was infatuated with the teacher so of course thought she was consenting to the relationship then it just all spiraled out of control and resulted in them fleeing across the Channel.

Plenty of girls (maybe also boys) have been infatuated with teachers and, over the age of consent, any resulting relationship results in the teacher just being dismissed.

However, if the courts start dilly-dallying with minors and trying to interpret whether there is a good intention by the adult, it is just too unreliable. Then if it's OK for a "mature" 15 year old, why not a 14 year old, and so on?

I have to say your earlier posts on this, whether or not you intended to, did come across as condoning the teacher's actions.

He is, by dictionary definition of the word, a paedophile so there is no getting away from that terminology. The word has, however, taken on a rather salacious and sensational super-meaning (for want of a better word), thanks to the tabloids. I think this is the meaning you are trying to distance yourself from?
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  #244  
Old 23.02.2017, 11:54
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I'm not sure what your point is, though. Are you saying the law should change to "interpret" the relationship on a case-by-case basis?
My point is simply that as so many people and countries interpret this differently it should be up for debate. Milo made his comments when discussing this point.

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Plenty of girls (maybe also boys) have been infatuated with teachers and, over the age of consent, any resulting relationship results in the teacher just being dismissed.
When female teachers get caught though, they always seem to get treated far more leniently. Though this is a whole other topic.

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I have to say your earlier posts on this, whether or not you intended to, did come across as condoning the teacher's actions.
Okay, well now I've clarified.

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He is, by dictionary definition of the word, a paedophile so there is no getting away from that terminology. The word has, however, taken on a rather salacious and sensational super-meaning (for want of a better word), thanks to the tabloids. I think this is the meaning you are trying to distance yourself from?
Exactly. His actions can't be compared to say Jimmy Savile or Ian Brady. Lumping them all together is disingenuous. Consensual sex with a 15 year old is just not the same as a sexual predator targeting prepubescent children.
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  #245  
Old 23.02.2017, 12:04
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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My point is simply that as so many people and countries interpret this differently it should be up for debate. Milo made his comments when discussing this point.
Not sure why this particular law should be homogenised across the globe, or even up for debate? Ironically, isn't that something that the Alt-right despise? Globalisation

The age of consent around most of the other countries with similar cultures, traditions and laws is 16 or thereabouts, why should the UK lower or change it in anyway to make room for a randy teacher who can't keep his distance from his students?

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When female teachers get caught though, they always seem to get treated far more leniently. Though this is a whole other topic.
This is a bit subjective - I've seen news stories over the last few months where female teachers have been tried and convicted for carrying on with male pupils. Then they have to be put on the sex offenders' register and are barred from contact with kids, so basically scuppered their own teaching or social work career.

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Exactly. His actions can't be compared to say Jimmy Savile or Ian Brady. Lumping them all together is disingenuous. Consensual sex with a 15 year old is just not the same as a sexual predator targeting prepubescent children.
Nobody was comparing his actions to serial rapists and murderers of young children. He's "simply" a paedophile carrying on with one of his underage pupils. The difference in this case is that the girl was complicit but that counts for zilch. Agree he shouldn't be treated the same as a serial rapist or murderer and, as I understand, his conviction was nowhere near as severe as Brady or as it would have been for Savile (or the other convicted Yewtree weirdos).
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  #246  
Old 23.02.2017, 12:40
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Look at it this way...few people bothered to defend the teachers actions at the time. Some people said 'but she consented' but on the whole, everyone agreed he broke the law and should be punished for diddling a teenager.

Milo says that he thinks diddling kids is ok, and suddenly, like the proverbial pest coming out of the proverbial woodwork, people are pointing out that a 15 year old can give consent and that, actually, on reflection, the teachers punishment was a bit harsh, and the law is wrong.

The only difference between the teacher having sex with his teenage student, and Milo is that, as far as we know, Milo hasn't had his way with a child. Otherwise, their beliefs are identical. And, until the Alt-Right poster boys comments became public, no one made any significant overtures about the law of consent being problematic. I certainly dont remember any threads on EF in recent history.

Ask yourself, would you be making as big a fuss about the age of consent if your Milo hadn't said what he did?

The answer is, of course, no.

So, you're only bothered about diddling children when you're poster boy Milo is getting in trouble over it.

Ergo, you are more interested in protecting Milo (god only knows why) than you are about protecting children.

To top it all off, you are actually suggesting that kids should be considered as adults when they consent, and that considering them as children, legally unable to make an informed decision, is not right.

The Alt-right is full of contradictions.
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  #247  
Old 23.02.2017, 12:46
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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My point is simply that as so many people and countries interpret this differently it should be up for debate. Milo made his comments when discussing this point.
What Milo was specifically refering to in his comments, was pederasty which comes from the Greek word 'paiderastía'. Last night, and without previously making him aware of this issue, I asked my OH what 'paiderastía' means. He said that literally, it's a adult man grooming an underage boy for sexual purposes.

Now, I don't know which part of grooming or sex with a minor you are willfully failing to understand, but consentual or otherwise, it's illegal in Switzerland, the UK and the US. With the best will in the World, I would urge you to not excuse this as what you write online can come back to bite you in the future. The law has made definitions regarding the age of consent based upon the ability of a minor to make responsible and informed decisions, because as we all know, children's reasoning can be malleable.
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  #248  
Old 23.02.2017, 13:16
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Look at it this way...few people bothered to defend the teachers actions at the time. Some people said 'but she consented' but on the whole, everyone agreed he broke the law and should be punished for diddling a teenager.

Milo says that he thinks diddling kids is ok, and suddenly, like the proverbial pest coming out of the proverbial woodwork, people are pointing out that a 15 year old can give consent and that, actually, on reflection, the teachers punishment was a bit harsh, and the law is wrong.

The only difference between the teacher having sex with his teenage student, and Milo is that, as far as we know, Milo hasn't had his way with a child. Otherwise, their beliefs are identical. And, until the Alt-Right poster boys comments became public, no one made any significant overtures about the law of consent being problematic. I certainly dont remember any threads on EF in recent history.

Ask yourself, would you be making as big a fuss about the age of consent if your Milo hadn't said what he did?

The answer is, of course, no.

So, you're only bothered about diddling children when you're poster boy Milo is getting in trouble over it.

Ergo, you are more interested in protecting Milo (god only knows why) than you are about protecting children.

To top it all off, you are actually suggesting that kids should be considered as adults when they consent, and that considering them as children, legally unable to make an informed decision, is not right.

The Alt-right is full of contradictions.
1) I'm not "Alt-Right"
2) Jeremy Forrest received a lot of support at the time, including on this very forum
3) The age of consent has also been discussed before on this forum (link link). Discussing it doesn't mean you're a paedophile or you are endangering children.
4) I am defending the right to discussion and right to an opinion. You (and to a lesser extent Blueangel) can't accept this so are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
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  #249  
Old 23.02.2017, 13:20
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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1) I'm not "Alt-Right"
That's quite funny because I've lost count of how many times people on here have been labelled "libtards" (presumably the politically polar opposite of an Alt-right) just because they have moderately left of centre views.

Irritating, isn't it?
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  #250  
Old 23.02.2017, 13:24
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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4) I am defending the right to discussion and right to an opinion. You (and to a lesser extent Blueangel) can't accept this so are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
You should be glad they haven't attributed pedophilia to you yet. They have trouble with discernment. Its all a blur, as far as their concerned.

It's a "gotcha" game, not really a rational discussion.
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  #251  
Old 23.02.2017, 13:29
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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You should be glad they haven't attributed pedophilia to you yet. They have trouble with discernment. Its all a blur, as far as they're concerned.

It's a "gotcha" game, not really a rational discussion.
You don't realise how much your posts are an unintended reflection of your own attitudes and beliefs, do you?

Nobody else said what you have just said, nor even intimated it.

Very revealing.
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  #252  
Old 23.02.2017, 17:08
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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.
4) I am defending the right to discussion and right to an opinion. You (and to a lesser extent Blueangel) can't accept this so are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
And we are defending our right to speak out against people who are discussing normalizing peadophilia.

Its really that simple.
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  #253  
Old 23.02.2017, 17:28
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

To be accurate, to label those who appear liberal as "libtards" is NOT the same as labelling someone as "alt-right."

Using "libtard" is sweeping with a broad brush and insulting/pejorative.

Using "alt-right" is actually calling someone something that is quite specific. And especially for someone who is "alt-right," it would be considered a compliment. For someone who considers themself moderate/conservative or somewhere on the right, who doesn't happen to be "alt-right" they are (usually) not going to be insulted, but they will likely inform you what flavor of the "right" that they are.

So no "bon mot" for you!

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That's quite funny because I've lost count of how many times people on here have been labelled "libtards" (presumably the politically polar opposite of an Alt-right) just because they have moderately left of centre views.

Irritating, isn't it?
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  #254  
Old 23.02.2017, 17:51
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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4) I am defending the right to discussion and right to an opinion.
But you are failing to address the legality of the issue, and the law is absolutely clear on this matter. This isn't a case of you shouldn't, it's a case of you cannot defend the indefensible.

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You (and to a lesser extent Blueangel) can't accept this so are deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying.
It's difficult to misinterpret your words when you have repeated them a few times over the last 36hrs. Now, I'm reading those words in the context of the discussion we're having, but imagine if, at some point in the future, a prospective employer read those words out of context?

This is the entire debate about free speech in a nutshell. You can think what you want. You can say what you want, but you also have to take the consequences of that. https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/statu...249153/photo/1
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  #255  
Old 23.02.2017, 17:55
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I'm not sure what your point is, though. Are you saying the law should change to "interpret" the relationship on a case-by-case basis?
Don't courts and judges already interpret the gravity of offenses on a case by case basis? This is why the law prescribes a maximum penalty but it is up to the court to go for a lesser penalty if they consider that there are mitigating circumstances or considerations.
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  #256  
Old 23.02.2017, 18:03
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

If Milo was a Liberal gay man, and he said what he said, I doubt we would see the same reaction. Liberals would all gather around him to cast him as a victim, with endless hours of apologetics, shriek at catholicism, and probably get him a TV talk show.
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  #257  
Old 23.02.2017, 18:05
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Don't courts and judges already interpret the gravity of offenses on a case by case basis? This is why the law prescribes a maximum penalty but it is up to the court to go for a lesser penalty if they consider that there are mitigating circumstances or considerations.
Well, clearly they do because he wasn't punished in the same way as the previous example given (Brady).

I understood what Loz meant was for the courts to be flexible with the age of consent itself, depending on the circumstances.

He had stated that it was different ages depending where in the world it was.
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  #258  
Old 23.02.2017, 18:06
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

He's not. He did. The end.
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  #259  
Old 23.02.2017, 18:07
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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If Milo was a Conservative gay man, and he said what he said, I doubt we would see the same reaction. Conservatives would all gather around him to cast him as a victim, with endless hours of Scemantics, shriek at Liberals, and probably get him a TV talk show.

Fixed that for you.
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  #260  
Old 23.02.2017, 18:15
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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If Milo was a Liberal gay man, and he said what he said, I doubt we would see the same reaction. Liberals would all gather around him to cast him as a victim, with endless hours of apologetics, shriek at catholicism, and probably get him a TV talk show.
the first thing Yiannopoulos did when the tape was released was claim victim status. The big, brave advocate of free speech instantly cast himself as a gay man and victim of child abuse whose identity should afford him immunity from the consequences of his words. The shameless flicking hypocrite.

"Milo is yanking our dicks for clicks cos clicks mean dollars"
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