Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #441  
Old 01.07.2019, 17:36
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,651
Groaned at 351 Times in 302 Posts
Thanked 13,781 Times in 7,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
So according to your arse, the country of provenance of the salute does indeed influence whether a prior but unconnected killing is right or wrong?

Good we’ve got that cleared up
You may not have noticed but there are no Ancient Romans left to salute each other; the gesture was adopted by a much newer and evil group.

Using this gesture is legally a hate crime in Switzerland, it is also banned in Slovakia, Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. But do feel free to use this gesture and explain to the police you are a "born again" Ancient Roman.

Your defence may be weakened by the fact there is no evidence that the Ancient Romans actually used this gesture; no doubt you have the provenance you quoted?
Reply With Quote
  #442  
Old 01.07.2019, 18:04
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,700
Groaned at 211 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 20,447 Times in 8,716 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
You may not have noticed but there are no Ancient Romans left to salute each other; the gesture was adopted by a much newer and evil group.

Using this gesture is legally a hate crime in Switzerland, it is also banned in Slovakia, Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. But do feel free to use this gesture and explain to the police you are a "born again" Ancient Roman.

Your defence may be weakened by the fact there is no evidence that the Ancient Romans actually used this gesture; no doubt you have the provenance you quoted?
Firstly, nobody is denying the illegality of the gesture. Secondly, there are actually Roman military re-enactment groups who might have a legitimate reason to use the gesture. But thirdly, all that is neither here nor there because in many countries, including Germany, Switzerland, the Channel Islands and Norway, murder is also illegal. We are comparing two murders, one of a politician who expressed a very intolerant view , and one of a Cuban immigrant who did nothing wrong.

Why is it not okay to criticize the murder of a Cuban but okay to criticize the murder of a bigot?
Reply With Quote
  #443  
Old 01.07.2019, 18:12
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,651
Groaned at 351 Times in 302 Posts
Thanked 13,781 Times in 7,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Firstly, nobody is denying the illegality of the gesture. Secondly, there are actually Roman military re-enactment groups who might have a legitimate reason to use the gesture. But thirdly, all that is neither here nor there because in many countries, including Germany, Switzerland, the Channel Islands and Norway, murder is also illegal. We are comparing two murders, one of a politician who expressed a very intolerant view , and one of a Cuban immigrant who did nothing wrong.

Why is it not okay to criticize the murder of a Cuban but okay to criticize the murder of a bigot?
Cuban? WTF? A search of this thread fails to find "Cuban"?
Reply With Quote
  #444  
Old 01.07.2019, 18:49
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,700
Groaned at 211 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 20,447 Times in 8,716 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Cuban? WTF? A search of this thread fails to find "Cuban"?
Nevertheless, he was Cuban. You could be excused for not knowing.

Does the fact that he was Cuban modify the acceptability of his murder ?

Do you think that if people say it does , that it would be fair to label them racists ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #445  
Old 02.07.2019, 00:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,869
Groaned at 80 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 7,504 Times in 3,519 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
So according to your arse, the country of provenance of the salute does indeed influence whether a prior but unconnected killing is right or wrong?

Good we’ve got that cleared up
Did I write any of that? Did I? Really?

You are wrong on so many counts. You've made no reference to the Bellamy Salute and appear to have precious little knowledge as to the actual origins of the Nazi salute. 1981-1982 General Studies class essay assignment... 'Why do we have so little evidence of the Nazi salute originally being a Roman salute when we still have so much surviving art, statues and literature from the Roman era?' Swiftly followed by... 'Cultural symbolism and it's misappropriation in modern politics'.
Reply With Quote
  #446  
Old 02.07.2019, 06:48
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,700
Groaned at 211 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 20,447 Times in 8,716 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Did I write any of that? Did I? Really?

You are wrong on so many counts. You've made no reference to the Bellamy Salute and appear to have precious little knowledge as to the actual origins of the Nazi salute. 1981-1982 General Studies class essay assignment... 'Why do we have so little evidence of the Nazi salute originally being a Roman salute when we still have so much surviving art, statues and literature from the Roman era?' Swiftly followed by... 'Cultural symbolism and it's misappropriation in modern politics'.

Because this aspect is a red herring. An attempt to sidetrack the discussion on technicalities that don’t have any bearing on the actual incident.

Do any of those things genuinely justify a murder (that actually occurred prior to the salute incident)
Reply With Quote
  #447  
Old 02.07.2019, 07:37
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,523
Groaned at 1,641 Times in 1,261 Posts
Thanked 30,717 Times in 14,672 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Using this gesture is legally a hate crime in Switzerland,
No, it isn't.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #448  
Old 02.07.2019, 09:15
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,366
Groaned at 123 Times in 114 Posts
Thanked 24,047 Times in 9,300 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
No, it isn't.

Tom
Not a black and white case but definitely on the darker side of a grey area. Best not to do it, just in case...

Quote:
Use of this salute is illegal in modern Germany and Austria (Verbotsgesetz 1947), and is also considered a criminal offense in modern Poland,[3] Slovakia,[3] and Austria.[3] In Canada, the Czech Republic,[4] France, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Sweden,[3] Switzerland, and Russia, displaying the salute is not in itself a criminal offence, but constitutes illegal hate speech if used for propagating Nazi ideology.[5][6][3]
However, as has been discussed in the thread already, you can get away with all sorts depending on the circumstances...
Reply With Quote
  #449  
Old 02.07.2019, 11:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,426
Groaned at 246 Times in 209 Posts
Thanked 8,943 Times in 4,684 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Using this gesture is legally a hate crime in Switzerland
Not true.

The Hitlergruss is allowed as ordinary way of greeting. It's also legal to say one is a nazi. Even greeting non-nazis that way may be lawful. It is forbidden to use the Hitlergruss as a means to attract outsiders, to recruit, if you will, but not to state one's own position.

Say a group of nazis have a bbq in a public park. They greet each other with Heil Hitler, coupled with the Hitlergruss. That's perfectly legal accordring to the federal court.
Reply With Quote
  #450  
Old 05.07.2019, 11:06
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,103
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 4,829 Times in 1,892 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

r/frenworld banned... well done, reddit !
Reply With Quote
  #451  
Old 05.07.2019, 15:01
FrankZappa's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France, near Geneva
Posts: 828
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,567 Times in 647 Posts
FrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
r/frenworld banned... well done, reddit !
Never heard of it, despite an outrageous amount of time spent on reddit.

What was it for?
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 05.07.2019, 15:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 7,930
Groaned at 257 Times in 208 Posts
Thanked 10,041 Times in 5,381 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Never heard of it, despite an outrageous amount of time spent on reddit.

What was it for?
They re-enacted the Roman salute in the online forum format.
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 05.07.2019, 15:38
Ouchboy's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Baden
Posts: 3,103
Groaned at 42 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 4,829 Times in 1,892 Posts
Ouchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond reputeOuchboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Quote:
View Post
Never heard of it, despite an outrageous amount of time spent on reddit.

What was it for?
Pepe memes
Nose-frens =jews
Racist subtext. White supremacist posts disguised as baby talk 'fren' nonsense

Last edited by Ouchboy; 05.07.2019 at 15:54.
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 09.07.2019, 11:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,869
Groaned at 80 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 7,504 Times in 3,519 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

I thought this was a spoof story, but apparently not

http://news.sky.com/story/tommy-robi...tence-11759351
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) olygirl International affairs/politics 2904 15.11.2018 12:45
The real face of muslim brotherhood in Egypt! SantaCruz International affairs/politics 14 03.12.2012 20:30
All The Trouble With Muslim Movie? Zuger Complaints corner 128 17.09.2012 18:52
Complaining about the loss of the small things in life... Andi1 Complaints corner 2 29.05.2012 08:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0