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  #101  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:23
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I personaly would be more afraid of disenfranchised white males with semiautomatic rifles and hatred of liberals! And there are loads of them in the US.
OK that's fine, but looking at those statistics I quoted above your position seems highly illogical.
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  #102  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:29
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

This is far more dangerous then any imagined threat of the alt-right:

UC Berkeley cancels Breitbart speaker as students protest
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  #103  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:37
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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This is far more dangerous then any imagined threat of the alt-right:

UC Berkeley cancels Breitbart speaker as students protest
He's been banned from Twitter and his old school in Blighty withdrew an invitation for him to speak there, so I would say UC Berkeley have it about right.
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  #104  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:38
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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This is far more dangerous then any imagined threat of the alt-right:

UC Berkeley cancels Breitbart speaker as students protest
Err... they're students?

They'd protest if they changed the brand of toilet paper. And it's been like that since time immemorial. Not particularly dangerous.
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  #105  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:40
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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He's been banned from Twitter and his old school in Blighty withdrew an invitation for him to speak there, so I would say UC Berkeley have it about right.
So you are against free speech? And support violence in order to suppress it?

If so, then you are the fascist.
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  #106  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:44
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Err... they're students?

They'd protest if they changed the brand of toilet paper. And it's been like that since time immemorial. Not particularly dangerous.
Tell that to the woman getting smacked with the placard.

The "caring" left.

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  #107  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:53
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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So you are against free speech? And support violence in order to suppress it?

If so, then you are the fascist.
I am against the incitement to religious and/or racial hatred.
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  #108  
Old 02.02.2017, 09:54
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Tell that to the woman getting smacked with the placard.

The "caring" left.
Maybe the same "rent-a-thugs" which were apparently used to discredit Trump supporters by making them appear violent on the campaign trail have a new gig?

I don't really believe EITHER side's agenda, to be honest.
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  #109  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:09
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I am against the incitement to religious and/or racial hatred.
There are laws already in place to prevent this.
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  #110  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:17
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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This is far more dangerous then any imagined threat of the alt-right:

UC Berkeley cancels Breitbart speaker as students protest
I agree but on the other hand he's been banned for how he delivers things, I think, personally, not what he says. That's the risk he takes.

Twitter and UC Berkeley also risk their reputation if they ban speakers with opposing views. I have my opinion on unnecessary outrage, on either side. Anger and disrespect will not make anybody think clearly.

Maybe Milo will curb the delivery to make it less about himself and more about the cause. Pup.
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  #111  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:26
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I agree but on the other hand he's been banned for how he delivers things, I think, personally, not what he says. That's the risk he takes.

Twitter and UC Berkeley also risk their reputation if they ban speakers with opposing views. I have my opinion on unnecessary outrage, on either side. Anger and disrespect will not make anybody think clearly.

Maybe Milo will curb the delivery to make it less about himself and more about the cause. Pup.
I don't think Milo should change anything because some people cried over it.

When will people learn that being offended is not an argument?
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  #112  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:27
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I agree but on the other hand he's been banned for how he delivers things, I think, personally, not what he says. That's the risk he takes.

Twitter and UC Berkeley also risk their reputation if they ban speakers with opposing views. I have my opinion on unnecessary outrage, on either side. Anger and disrespect will not make anybody think clearly.

Maybe Milo will curb the delivery to make it less about himself and more about the cause. Pup.

Note that UC Berkeley did not ban him. It was cancelled due to Antifa violence.

Milo's popularity soared after Twitter banned him for unjustifiable reasons. This event is not likely to hamper Milo's popularity at all. Its free nationwide publicity, and will likely work against leftist.

How do you think Trump solidified his support during the election? It was because of mob violence like this, and BLM in Ferguson.

Milo may have just garnered even more supporters through this.
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  #113  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:32
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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They have forked the codebase AND the content. And to your statement about it not being clear where the content comes from, on the bottom of EVERY page (except the landing page as this has nothing to do with Wikipedia), this appears:

Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License unless otherwise noted.
This article's content derived from Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia (See original source).

I don't think they could be any clearer and I know that a LOT of time was spent to make sure EVERYTHING is squeaky clean.


I am well aware of what the Alt-right is about, thank you very much. Lots of elements of the GOP and Dem parties that I don't approve of, either. But I am not ALT-Right, and here I am talking about my support for the ALT-Tech movement, which is challenging some behemoths of the industry. I do believe that when people realize how they are being manipulated by Wikipedia, Twitter, FB, Google and many of the others, they will choose an alternative that neither censors nor supports a clearly political bias.
Finally noticed that, buried right at the very bottom, in tiny font. And "derived" is a jump when it's unchanged, there are plenty of ways they could have made it clearer.

It would be interesting to see exactly what articles have been changed, but it's in no way easy. I see your gamergate had a total of 3 contributors, i tried to see what other changes they had made, but I need an account.

I see you can pay to be a moderator over your business area, prepare to see the climate change page, bought for you by exxon-mobil.

If they're not going to censor other points of view, how come they chopped out most of the wikipeadia gamergate page?
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  #114  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:38
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Castro - UC Berkeley (where i did my undergrad studies), supported the event, at least in the sense that it was allowed to take place on campus and organized by a recognized student group, the Berkeley College Republicans.

The town of Berkeley has a LONG tradition of being full of "troublemakers" looking for a reason to turn protests into riots. The typical scenario is a protest that might start off being organized by UC students gets hijacked by locals who are looking for an excuse to escalate into violence or destruction of property; often accompanied by looting. This happens all over the Bay Area. I saw it when I was growing up in the area. I saw it when I was a student and I saw it as a resident until moving to Zurich in 2006.

The campus Free Speech Movement was started by Mario Savio (among others) on the Berkeley Campus back in '64 and launched a proud tradition of student protests and challenges to the establishment. But what it has morphed into is a travesty.

WRT Milo and his Twitter ban, it is really a farce. His ban stems from what others (deemed Milo's "followers") said on Twitter to Leslie Jones. Granted, many of the Tweets were deplorable, but Milo had no control over that. One may detest Milo for many reasons, but the Twitter ban was really just a smokescreen for SJWs within Twitter wanting to get him off of their platform. In fact, it led directly to Gab becoming popular... unintended consequences!

And while I am not a big Twitter user, I do not choose to patronize social media or other firms that choose censorship to stifle political dissent. I said it in another post on this thread; I think that many folks, as they see how they are being manipulated by the social media sites that they have chosen to use, will be quite upset when they realize what is being done, REGARDLESS of their political beliefs.

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He's been banned from Twitter and his old school in Blighty withdrew an invitation for him to speak there, so I would say UC Berkeley have it about right.
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  #115  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:39
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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When will people learn that being offended is not an argument?
Yes this.

But I would actually want to know what he says if he stopped being such a brat, ha!

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Milo may have just garnered even more supporters through this.
Oh indeed. He is not my favorite, I dislike the self centered flippancy, but still think controversy is needed to rewrite certain policies on open speech and real diversity. Not the diversity idea that is being shoved people's throats to shut them up, to excuse violence against opponents. He is just somebody who figured out what controversy does for his popularity. Medias darling, like poor quality singers and pop culture. I think he is way smarter than that and could do all without the hostility.

Gimme Shapiro over this any day. He is clever and the level of discourse is quality. I don't think he would get banned, would reach out to people, make them rethink or compare.
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  #116  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:46
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Jesus wept... It is hardly tiny font, and looks to be the same size as the font used for references. It is pretty customary for footnotes and such to be in smaller font then the body of a page!

WRT the GG page, I have no idea how it has been changed or who has made the changes, but you can check the edit history in the same way that you can check the edit history on Wikipedia.

If you want to add something, I am pretty sure that you can register and do so (I have never tried to be/become an editor for Wikipedia or Infogalactic). I have used Wikipedia daily for many years and find it extremely useful for 90% of the information that I look for. That being said, when I learned how the Admin/curation system works there, it really made me angry. When I learned about an alternative, I started to use it and started to look into the backstory. What I found, and continue to find, is very interesting; at least to me.

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Finally noticed that, buried right at the very bottom, in tiny font. And "derived" is a jump when it's unchanged, there are plenty of ways they could have made it clearer.

It would be interesting to see exactly what articles have been changed, but it's in no way easy. I see your gamergate had a total of 3 contributors, i tried to see what other changes they had made, but I need an account.

I see you can pay to be a moderator over your business area, prepare to see the climate change page, bought for you by exxon-mobil.

If they're not going to censor other points of view, how come they chopped out most of the wikipeadia gamergate page?
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  #117  
Old 02.02.2017, 10:46
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Oh indeed. He is not my favorite, I dislike the self centered flippancy, but still think controversy is needed to rewrite certain policies on open speech and real diversity. Not the diversity idea that is being shoved people's throats to shut them up, to excuse violence against opponents. He is just somebody who figured out what controversy does for his popularity. Medias darling, like poor quality singers and pop culture. I think he is way smarter than that and could do all without the hostility.

Gimme Shapiro over this any day. He is clever and the level of discourse is quality. I don't think he would get banned, would reach out to people, make them rethink or compare.

I don't know of anyone looking up to Milo as a thought leader. I don't think that is what he is offering. He's simply speaking freely and criticizing the current political culture, which is essential for any culture to grow and progress.

Its the same with Shapiro. I don't think Shapiro is trying to convince anybody to think like he does. If anything, he is a proponent of free individual thinking.

People who come to these things are not looking for someone to do their thinking for them. The leftists may have trouble understanding this, particularly if there view of the world is that thought needs to be validated and approved, and any others suppressed.

Leftists are on the wrong side of human development and history on this. If they truly want to challenge them, they really have to do it on the level of intellectual discourse, if they are at all capable.
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  #118  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:09
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I do believe that when people realize how they are being manipulated by Wikipedia, Twitter, FB, Google and many of the others, they will choose an alternative that neither censors nor supports a clearly political bias.
To believe that people do not know, and would actually disagree with the massive anount of manipulated info and data, says more about you than people themselves. I think people use Twitter, FB, Google and even Wiki for entertainment. Not to get unbiased data. I do not think being content with simplified or manipulated info is inherently a cognitive human trait, I think that actually comes from schools and overbearing media push. It all feeds into lazy info processing.

I had a massive fall out with a linguist, an author of soc-comm theory books back home when he was on my exam committee. He could not accept the idea that consumers are actually willing to play the manipulation game. I do not think they are victims. I think, few years later, consumer choice proves it, it is even more evident. Things will improve only when people will not opt for manipulated facts, when they will know enough to recognize them and when they will choose info over entertainment.

The only protection there is (it is actually very potent), is to choose wisely, as a consumer. Every single click and page. Be aware of how we prioritize, how our attention works, how selective and biased our info processing is (which we seem to be, aside of other influence, also biologically conditioned in, so similar for so many folks,) how and why to get more data...and where.

I also think none of this has anything to do with either left or right. It has all to do with philo, info theories, opinion making, judgment, cognition, economy theories, etc. This spans across the political spectrum. Both extremes use our info fatigue and cerebral shortcuts to their benefits.

I'd say bias is more of a biological phenomenon, than sociological. Medias play it well.
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  #119  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:18
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I'd say bias is more of a biological phenomenon, than sociological. Medias play it well.
A lot of this is driven by social acceptance, rather than political or philosophical integrity. Social acceptance was previously expressed through consumer brands. With no money to go shopping, its easier to gain social acceptance by attending a riot. "I was the one who threw a rock at Starbucks" because a claim of street credibility.

Most of these protestors, when interviewed individually, can rarely articulate what they are protesting for, and to which end and purpose.
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  #120  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:26
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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That being said, when I learned how the Admin/curation system works there, it really made me angry. When I learned about an alternative, I started to use it and started to look into the backstory. What I found, and continue to find, is very interesting; at least to me.
It's not perfect, but infogalactic doesn't seem to be offering any viable alternative except an even more limited viewpoint, purged of anyone not deemed correctly "Objective", it's expressly against SJWs for example, conveniently perjuring anyone expressing views that aren't traditionally white male conservative.

Like I said, I did try to navigate around the site trying to find original content to get an idea of what articles they are writing. I would have thought it would be something they'd be proud of, say, giving an original or highlighted articles page. But I also think they know their own users and bad PR.
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