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  #121  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:29
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

the danger with these nazis rioting at berkeley (or anywhere really) is that it has a snowball effect. extreme violence leads other small minds to think that "oh this milo guy must be really bad then" which lowers their threshold of being violent, creating more violence etc.

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He's been banned from Twitter and his old school in Blighty withdrew an invitation for him to speak there, so I would say UC Berkeley have it about right.
this is what i mean. "milo is bad because he must be if he is banned from twitter" (or people riot at his talks). the whole trump hysteria works the same way.
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  #122  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:35
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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the danger with these nazis rioting at berkeley (or anywhere really) is that it has a snowball effect. extreme violence leads other small minds to think that "oh this milo guy must be really bad then" which lowers their threshold of being violent, creating more violence etc.
That, and where it starts to get really dangerous is the issue of who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable?

Enter the regressive SJW's of the left
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  #123  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:39
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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That, and where it starts to get really dangerous is the issue of who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not acceptable?
yeah they say "you need to punch nazis in the face" which is fine of course, except what is a nazi? member of nsdap? any person with a maga cap? any person not agreeing with you?
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  #124  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:45
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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yeah they say "you need to punch nazis in the face" which is fine of course, except what is a nazi? member of nsdap? any person with a maga cap? any person not agreeing with you?
Pretty much.

Here is a video from yesterday from the Guardian, with a journalist trying to justify violence to people who disagree with the regressive left. Scary stuff.

And yet they dare to call themselves liberal. I honestly think the left is finished.
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  #125  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:45
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Nope just racist, bigoted, feckwits, you can be a Trump supporter and not a racist, I suppose thats possible. But the racist Alt-Right and Nazi Skin heads and KKK losers, I would be more then happy to pick a fist fight with them win or lose. Sometimes violence begets violence and in some cases its well deserved, especially when it involves infringement of others basic human rights.
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  #126  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:47
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Pretty much.

Here is a video from yesterday from the Guardian, with a journalist trying to justify violence to people who disagree with the regressive left. Scary stuff.

And yet they dare to call themselves liberal. I honestly think the left is finished.
Why are you so right wing, what brother f*%ked you in the ass, to make you so hateful?
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  #127  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:48
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Nope just racist, bigoted, feckwits, you can be a Trump supporter and not a racist, I suppose thats possible. But the racist Alt-Right and Nazi Skin heads and KKK losers, I would be more then happy to pick a fist fight with them win or lose. Sometimes violence begets violence and in some cases its well deserved, especially when it involves infringement of others basic human rights.
''Lest The Guardian staff forget: Violence coupled with a sense of moral righteousness, is precisely how terrorists emerge'' Maajid Nawaz
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  #128  
Old 02.02.2017, 11:49
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Nope just racist, bigoted, feckwits, you can be a Trump supporter and not a racist, I suppose thats possible. But the racist Alt-Right and Nazi Skin heads and KKK losers, I would be more then happy to pick a fist fight with them win or lose. Sometimes violence begets violence and in some cases its well deserved, especially when it involves infringement of others basic human rights.
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Why are you so right wing, what brother f*%ked you in the ass, to make you so hateful?
Lol
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  #129  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:00
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Why are you so right wing, what brother f*%ked you in the ass, to make you so hateful?

You can hate my thinking all you like, but it seems you still haven't realized the gravity of the situation. Brexit and Trump were just the beginning...

Last edited by kriss kross; 02.02.2017 at 12:20. Reason: Too much :)
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  #130  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:02
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

I think you may be giving the avg social media consumer too much credit... but that is just my opinion!

In fact, I think Wikipedia is the best example. For probably 90% of MY searches, the info I am seeing out is pretty cut and dry/non political stuff. There would be little opportunity or need to insert any bias.

However, when it comes to info about people, historical events, controversies (ie GG), bias can play a huge part. What gets included/not included and what gets edited/not edited can really change what people see and contribute to whatever "narrative" that is being pushed.

And while people are perfectly capable of doing their own research (and often do), I still think that what happens at Wikipedia is subtle and insidious... and sometimes NOT so subtle.

JMO

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To believe that people do not know, and would actually disagree with the massive anount of manipulated info and data, says more about you than people themselves. I think people use Twitter, FB, Google and even Wiki for entertainment. Not to get unbiased data. I do not think being content with simplified or manipulated info is inherently a cognitive human trait, I think that actually comes from schools and overbearing media push. It all feeds into lazy info processing.

I had a massive fall out with a linguist, an author of soc-comm theory books back home when he was on my exam committee. He could not accept the idea that consumers are actually willing to play the manipulation game. I do not think they are victims. I think, few years later, consumer choice proves it, it is even more evident. Things will improve only when people will not opt for manipulated facts, when they will know enough to recognize them and when they will choose info over entertainment.

The only protection there is (it is actually very potent), is to choose wisely, as a consumer. Every single click and page. Be aware of how we prioritize, how our attention works, how selective and biased our info processing is (which we seem to be, aside of other influence, also biologically conditioned in, so similar for so many folks,) how and why to get more data...and where.

I also think none of this has anything to do with either left or right. It has all to do with philo, info theories, opinion making, judgment, cognition, economy theories, etc. This spans across the political spectrum. Both extremes use our info fatigue and cerebral shortcuts to their benefits.

I'd say bias is more of a biological phenomenon, than sociological. Medias play it well.
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  #131  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:03
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

Pot, kettle, black...

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Nope just racist, bigoted, feckwits, you can be a Trump supporter and not a racist, I suppose thats possible. But the racist Alt-Right and Nazi Skin heads and KKK losers, I would be more then happy to pick a fist fight with them win or lose. Sometimes violence begets violence and in some cases its well deserved, especially when it involves infringement of others basic human rights.

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Why are you so right wing, what brother f*%ked you in the ass, to make you so hateful?
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  #132  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:16
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Pot, kettle, black...
Not at all, I never called my self a pacifist. I just love how people on this forum spew so much hate and try to affirm their prejudices by constantly looking for a rationale to give themselves the right to do so.

This is a public forum we are all entitled to opinions, just some preach a whole lot more hate and then try to justify it, I am sure they wouldn't get off their arses to actually protest anything. A bunch of armchair cockwombles, muppets, whatever...

If I was in a public space I wouldn't give it two thoughts to offer anybody out, who I found was being offensive on the grounds of race or religion, I feel its my patriotic duty to do so. I aint no snowflake, or a libtard or whatever label you want to put on me. Just be sure to not spout this stuff openly in a bar in case I am around.
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  #133  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:20
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)



how old are you? everybody just laughs their ass off when you talk about how dangerous you are in real life.
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  #134  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:30
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Not at all, I never called my self a pacifist. I just love how people on this forum spew so much hate and try to affirm their prejudices by constantly looking for a rationale to give themselves the right to do so.

This is a public forum we are all entitled to opinions, just some preach a whole lot more hate and then try to justify it, I am sure they wouldn't get off their arses to actually protest anything. A bunch of armchair cockwombles, muppets, whatever...

If I was in a public space I wouldn't give it two thoughts to offer anybody out, who I found was being offensive on the grounds of race or religion, I feel its my patriotic duty to do so. I aint no snowflake, or a libtard or whatever label you want to put on me. Just be sure to not spout this stuff openly in a bar in case I am around.
I get it, you seem like your heart is in the right place and that's a good thing.

But you have to be really careful with this type of thinking, that you can justify violence on moral grounds.

Otherwise you might just end up facilitating and justifying things like the Charlie Hedbo murders
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  #135  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:33
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I think you may be giving the avg social media consumer too much credit... but that is just my opinion!

In fact, I think Wikipedia is the best example. For probably 90% of MY searches, the info I am seeing out is pretty cut and dry/non political stuff. There would be little opportunity or need to insert any bias.

However, when it comes to info about people, historical events, controversies (ie GG), bias can play a huge part. What gets included/not included and what gets edited/not edited can really change what people see and contribute to whatever "narrative" that is being pushed.

And while people are perfectly capable of doing their own research (and often do), I still think that what happens at Wikipedia is subtle and insidious... and sometimes NOT so subtle.

JMO
I think the average consumer has as much power on line as off line, you go to a store and either pick an apple or a Mars bar. There are some who pick a Mas bar everyday and then wonder why there are consequences. You can pick a book or a tabloid, and people forget that there are consequences on the content of there cerebral gray mush.

The bias of what we tend to believe (either craftily changed and delivered by Wiki or wherever we pick it from) is stereotypical. Wiki et al just profits on our ability to believe simplistic stuff, and get voluntarily distracted by pleasantly simple propaganda, scandals or whatever fits the modern themes and memes.

I may believe in our power as a consumer since once all I ever had was my decision to critically assess an info source, assign credibility and test it. I used to believe that power does not rely on cash but on access to info. I no longer think so, power relies on our quality work with info.

You know what Wiki does. Most people do. What do you do? Get another source. You however need to work with the information you get in a particular way, to weed the attractive nonsense from quality. This is where consumers do not go, I think. The info is out there. But what to do with it is tricky. It is easier to kick back and follow trends and popular opinions, especially if it is accompanied by a good level of outrage and social cohesion, acceptance and sense of belonging, self worth and frequent affirmation, followers and brownie points, prestige. What else are social media used for? I have my doubts about social media being genuinely used to spread quality info. It is mainly supposed to be entertaining.

So, in fact - I do not give credit where credit is not due. Consumers have the potential, but the power gets tossed when habits form. 3rd grade, probably. That's when social cohesion starts getting ahead of cognition.

That again is both left/right. I actually think the left traditionally pushes for social cohesion on account of epistemology more than the right wingers do. And, to lower the quality of epistemological processes in a society exposes the consumers even further to misinterpreted facts and vehicles (media, et al) that deliver them. The fact there is somebody making cash on this reinforces all.
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  #136  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:39
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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Not at all, I never called my self a pacifist. I just love how people on this forum spew so much hate and try to affirm their prejudices by constantly looking for a rationale to give themselves the right to do so.

This is a public forum we are all entitled to opinions, just some preach a whole lot more hate and then try to justify it
And yet it always seems to be you who is the first who resorts to insults and name calling.
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  #137  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:40
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I get it, you seem like your heart is in the right place and that's a good thing.

But you have to be really careful with this type of thinking, that you can justify violence on moral grounds.

Otherwise you might just end up facilitating and justifying things like the Charlie Hedbo murders

*Yeah, every now and then I like to drop some real shit
To be fair, I haven't seen TobiasM "justifying violence on moral grounds" in any of his posts. Justifying protest, yes, but not violence.

Unfortunately, that seems to be a running (and faintly sinister) tone among a handful on here - basically re-writing what others are saying to inject the necessary bile into it simply to justify their own counter-argument which you can then make a hyperbolic stretch to, in this case, "justifying Charlie Hebdo murders", which is clearly not the case.
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  #138  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:47
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

I suspect "Nazi" protestors have a deep seated fear of acknowledging their own inner bigots. It could be the same kind of vehemence recovering drug addicts have against drug use. They have to psychologically radicalize to the opposite extreme, to try to avoid confronting their own inner bigot. The same extremism they claim to battle is quite evident in their own actions already.

Perhaps they really need a different process for change and transformation, one that starts with own selves.
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  #139  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:51
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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To be fair, I haven't seen TobiasM "justifying violence on moral grounds" in any of his posts. Justifying protest, yes, but not violence.

Unfortunately, that seems to be a running (and faintly sinister) tone among a handful on here - basically re-writing what others are saying to inject the necessary bile into it simply to justify their own counter-argument which you can then make a hyperbolic stretch to, in this case, "justifying Charlie Hebdo murders", which is clearly not the case.
No, he said he ''wouldn't give it two thoughts to offer anybody out, who I found was being offensive on the grounds of race or religion'' I thought he meant violence, perhaps I was wrong.

Which sounds good on the surface, go attacks some nazis, righteous.

The problem is, who gets to decide who the nazis are? And how much violence is then morally justified?

The reason I used the (rather extreme) example of the Charlie Hedbo murders, is because I think, with zero proof , that they honestly believed what they were doing was the right thing. That they were morally justified to carry out those actions. That's why it is so dangerous.
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  #140  
Old 02.02.2017, 12:53
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Re: All about the alt-right (in the wake of anti-Muslim shooting)

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I think the average consumer has as much power on line as off line, you go to a store and either pick an apple or a Mars bar. There are some who pick a Mars bar everyday and then wonder why there are consequences.

As far as I'm concerned you can be for, or against Trump, and you can phrase your argument well, or poorly, and you can support it (or not) with conventional or alternate media. I'm willing to respect your right to be alt-right, alt-left, alt-shift, or just alt.

But leave Mars bars alone. Have you no sense of human decency whatsoever?
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