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  #101  
Old 03.02.2017, 15:39
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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I still remember my mums reaction to America's first Black president: ''He's not even really black is he?''
Actually, he is.

What he is not is African-American.

Tom
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  #102  
Old 03.02.2017, 15:39
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

I respect the office, above all else. I have a cousin who constantly referred to Obama as "Odumbo." I told him that I thought it made him look quite stupid and detracted from everything else that he was trying to communicate.

I am hardly a "snowflake" nor a Trump worshiper. I guess I am a bit old school when it comes to respect...

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Compared to what else could be said about the cheeto-hued buffoon, believe me when i say that was probably the classiest way to describe him.

Without upsetting the poor little snowflakes who worship him, of course.
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  #103  
Old 03.02.2017, 15:40
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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There is a conceptual gap. I think its just a matter of time before people come to some grips with what is going on.

A lot of people are simply at a loss as to how to move forward. Trump effectively debunks a narrative they have been building up since the 1960s. Without it, they don't know what else to do other than scream pathetic epithets at him and his supporters. Its the only thing they have, and is a form of denial.

I think if a saner and more palpable liberal platform was to come out of this, I would certainly keep an open mind to it. But as for those whose polemics still exhibit fascist tendencies of shutting down communication, no quarters!

In due course of time, acceptance comes after denial. I'm already starting to see it from some liberal thought leaders in the US.
I gotta say, I think there is a lot of overintelectualizing. What I saw in Berkely was no intellectual sophistication, no democratic nor innovative lead - but cowardly and criminal violence. It is all about power: antipresidential push and Trump himself. He is using the pretext of the American interest (he may well deliver), they are using a pretext of opression politics (which has not delivered for decades). I wonder what will happen. But we all have a unique chance to learn from that crazy situation there. We are lucky to not be directly affected today.
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  #104  
Old 03.02.2017, 16:04
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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I gotta say, I think there is a lot of overintelectualizing. What I saw in Berkely was no intellectual sophistication, no democratic nor innovative lead - but cowardly and criminal violence. It is all about power: antipresidential push and Trump himself. He is using the pretext of the American interest (he may well deliver), they are using a pretext of opression politics (which has not delivered for decades). I wonder what will happen. But we all have a unique chance to learn from that crazy situation there. We are lucky to not be directly effected today.
Most of those protest groups have been surveilled, and their members are not know to have any real military training. Hence, they are not really considered a grave threat. It even looks as if Berkeley officials somewhat encouraged them to riot this time.
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  #105  
Old 03.02.2017, 17:00
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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Actually, he is.

What he is not is African-American.

Tom
Lol, wasn't his father from Kenya?
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  #106  
Old 03.02.2017, 17:10
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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lol, wasn't his father he from kenya?
FTFY
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  #107  
Old 03.02.2017, 17:16
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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There is a conceptual gap. I think its just a matter of time before people come to some grips with what is going on.

A lot of people are simply at a loss as to how to move forward. Trump effectively debunks a narrative they have been building up since the 1960s. Without it, they don't know what else to do other than scream pathetic epithets at him and his supporters. Its the only thing they have, and is a form of denial.

I think if a saner and more palpable liberal platform was to come out of this, I would certainly keep an open mind to it. But as for those whose polemics still exhibit fascist tendencies of shutting down communication, no quarters!

In due course of time, acceptance comes after denial. I'm already starting to see it from some liberal thought leaders in the US.
In the past several weeks, I have been asking myself why, a lot. As a consequence, I have been reading a lot, from many different sources, and, I confess, looking for answers inward (e.g. within the USA) more than outward (in the rest of the world).

I think this article is a very good read, and I found it very enlightening. My apologies if it's been posted already somewhere else. My way of thinking could not be farther away from a lot of the concepts that the author describes, especially with regards to rejection of culture and higher education. I am convinced of what I believe and stand up for it, but this article was very helpful for me to understand a different and important angle to what is going on around me.

What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
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  #108  
Old 03.02.2017, 17:32
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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I am just waiting for those who will decide to report a member to our "office" because the are not able to determine the member's motivation to post.



Well, the chance to go from Moderator to Mediator ..... every job needs promotion prospects.
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  #109  
Old 03.02.2017, 18:16
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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In the past several weeks, I have been asking myself why, a lot. As a consequence, I have been reading a lot, from many different sources, and, I confess, looking for answers inward (e.g. within the USA) more than outward (in the rest of the world).

I think this article is a very good read, and I found it very enlightening. My apologies if it's been posted already somewhere else. My way of thinking could not be farther away from a lot of the concepts that the author describes, especially with regards to rejection of culture and higher education. I am convinced of what I believe and stand up for it, but this article was very helpful for me to understand a different and important angle to what is going on around me.

What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class

The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering. This was supposedly the Left's domain, and they got it completely wrong. Trump certainly didn't need to, yet he had to stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective. One can cynically claim it was all strategy and analysis. I suspect that takes a bit more empathy and compassion to do this correctly. I do detect that possibility in Trump, although not 100% convince. I'm keeping an open mind either way. I'll judge it later by its end results.

Last edited by Phos; 03.02.2017 at 20:27.
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  #110  
Old 03.02.2017, 18:51
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering. This was supposedly the Left's domain, and they got it completely wrong. Trump certainly didn't need to, yet he had to stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective. One can cynically claim it was all strategy and analysis. I suspect that takes a bit more empathy and compassion to do this correctly. I do detect that possibility in Trump, although not 100% convince. I'm keeping an open mind either way. I'll just it later by its end results.
Trump is a sales-person. That's what sales-people do - put themselves in the other sides shoes.

Let's hope there is something left to judge after Trump
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  #111  
Old 04.02.2017, 11:53
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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In the past several weeks, I have been asking myself why, a lot. As a consequence, I have been reading a lot, from many different sources, and, I confess, looking for answers inward (e.g. within the USA) more than outward (in the rest of the world).

I think this article is a very good read, and I found it very enlightening. My apologies if it's been posted already somewhere else. My way of thinking could not be farther away from a lot of the concepts that the author describes, especially with regards to rejection of culture and higher education. I am convinced of what I believe and stand up for it, but this article was very helpful for me to understand a different and important angle to what is going on around me.

What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
Just read your link. Does hit the nail on the spot. Thanks BokerTov!
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  #112  
Old 04.02.2017, 12:19
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering. This was supposedly the Left's domain, and they got it completely wrong.
I don't think they got it wrong, I think they are just not Left. And people stopped buying into the dogma that is supposed to be the "Left". It seems that the theory on Left vs Right is oudated. If caring for hopelessly marginalized folks was indeed a priority for those who present themselves as Left, hopelessly marginalized folks would vote them. Voting Trump probably was a risky decision for the marginalized, but it looks like it was less risky than safely assuming that those who present themselves as Left are actually representing the interests of the hopelessly marginalized. Maybe there was more experience involved in making the voting decision, than manipulation, tupee appeal and attractive ridiculous tweets. It will be hard to swallow that even for the hopelessly marginalized, there is never a magic fast fix and things will pobably take long, as it is. But people get tired of being forced to believe that the official Left is sticking to their philosophical theory. Saying people are equal and then still picking the more equals amongst themselves (usually some kind of token ones, to try to prove their point or make him/her votable). In my opinion. I think exposed nonsense is still easier to be held accountable than nonsense that is conspired behind the scene. It looks like the meaures we see now, the comm surrounding it - is exposed (even if hated by so many).
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  #113  
Old 04.02.2017, 12:49
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering. This was supposedly the Left's domain, and they got it completely wrong. Trump certainly didn't need to, yet he had to stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective. One can cynically claim it was all strategy and analysis. I suspect that takes a bit more empathy and compassion to do this correctly. I do detect that possibility in Trump, although not 100% convince. I'm keeping an open mind either way. I'll judge it later by its end results.
It is easy to make promises; harder to deliver. Time will tell.

History shows us dictators make extreme promises to get elected then kill the election process so they are never called to account but Trump will have to face mid term.
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  #114  
Old 04.02.2017, 14:00
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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I don't think they got it wrong, I think they are just not Left. And people stopped buying into the dogma that is supposed to be the "Left". It seems that the theory on Left vs Right is oudated. If caring for hopelessly marginalized folks was indeed a priority for those who present themselves as Left, hopelessly marginalized folks would vote them. Voting Trump probably was a risky decision for the marginalized, but it looks like it was less risky than safely assuming that those who present themselves as Left are actually representing the interests of the hopelessly marginalized. Maybe there was more experience involved in making the voting decision, than manipulation, tupee appeal and attractive ridiculous tweets. It will be hard to swallow that even for the hopelessly marginalized, there is never a magic fast fix and things will pobably take long, as it is. But people get tired of being forced to believe that the official Left is sticking to their philosophical theory. Saying people are equal and then still picking the more equals amongst themselves (usually some kind if token ones, to try to prove their point). In my opinion. I think exposed nonsense is still easier to be held accountable than nonsense that is conspired behind the scene. It looks like the meaures we see now, the comm surrounding it - is exposed (even if hated by so many).
There is no "left" left anywhere. Winterthur used to have a name for them during the Wohlwend era (which lasted unbelievable 10 years): "Cüpli-Sozis", referring to champagne/upper lifestyle. There are nothing but "Cüpli-Sozis" out there now.
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  #115  
Old 04.02.2017, 14:34
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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I have a sister named Kim, and my wife's ex is named Kim.

I think that you're onto something.

Tom
Isn't Kim the Korean equivalent to Smith and Müller?
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  #116  
Old 04.02.2017, 14:38
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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Isn't Kim the Korean equivalent to Smith and Müller?
Kim means gold in Vietnamese.

In English, it's short for Kimball(m) or Kimberly(f), I've known several of each.

Alas, I don't know any Koreans.

Tom
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  #117  
Old 04.02.2017, 17:00
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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....but Trump will have to face mid term.
I don't think it will take that long, really. A President in contempt of his own Courts, Judges and Constitution will probably won't last long.

25th Amendment, Section 4

https://youtu.be/Gnnj_YjdJgs
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  #118  
Old 04.02.2017, 17:21
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering.Trump certainly didn't need to, yet he had to stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective.I suspect that takes a bit more empathy and compassion to do this correctly. I'll judge it later by its end results.
Honestly, there is little proof to conclude that Trump did “stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective” or that he “was able to relate with hopelessly marginalised people”.

It looks more like he has been selling his illusion of grandiosity with simple words that made him sound like one of them. He appealed to the poorest by blaming immigrants and non Christians for everything wrong in the less privileged peoples`lives. He played on stereotypes (“bad hombres”) and added anger and fear into the mix, in order to justify a wall, bans and raids.
It also helps that sometimes his supporters live in a fact free world like him and have a short-term memory, which allows Kellyanne to give a creative spin on reality.

Trump`s approach is nothing new. Fear mongering, saying God is on their side and authoritarian propaganda have proven useful to control the masses time and time again. Unfortunately it may have many unintended consequences, such as increasing recruitment into terror groups.

So far the strategy seems to be

✓ deliberately distracting the public
✓ discrediting any source of information that exposes alternative facts by attaching terms like "radical", "disgusting" and "scum" to them
✓ control of everything that reflects badly of him (blacklisting media, blaming others for his mistakes, making threats)


Some examples:

Trump`s preferred method of distraction is likely Twitter. He has distracted people from his filing with FEC for re-election by rambling about “the failing media” and how “Europe is a mess” (stressing the failed Paris attack this week as a justification for his ban, but not acknowledging the Quebec attack done in his name). He also uses Twitter to take credit for things he had no involvement in, most recently the January jobs report

. He abuses his power by making empty threats, most recently to threaten to defund Berkeley after the protests against Bannon`s pal Milo, who had planned to publicly name undocumented students. Or by warning US companies to avoid manufacturing products abroad (which is interesting, considering his merchandise is made in China)

Despite his already blurred lines regarding conflicts of interests, he already filed with FEC for reelection the day he was elected, which is unprecedented and would allow his candidate status to get favours with PACs. Consequently 501c3s cant campaign (hence they need a strategy to criticise Trump without campaigning), or risk losing nonprofit status
.

No statements yet on his rollback of the investment conflict of interest rule, or his taxes, or financial benefitting through deals in those Middle Eastern countries excluded from the ban.
Also no statements on how his swampy inexperienced billionaire cabinet is in line with his promise to drain the swamp. Or details on the botched Yemen raid (during which he tweeted about ratings), which he tried to pin on Obama (remember how he used to say he - a political novice - was too smart for intel briefings?)



He has attempted to silence those who don`t fit his agenda, including the EPA, CDC, USDA scientists and a national park. He fires people for doing their job, most recently Yates for upholding the Constitution.

He fuels hate and fear by branding voices critical of him as illegals, radicals, professional protesters.. depending on the argument Trump claims these people are either too lazy to work, or taking away Americans` jobs. Trump supporters then project their anger onto these people and boycott those who do not side with Trump, most recently Starbucks, for promising to train refugees.

He creates distrust in mainstream media, which again is very convenient for him to control his followers.

It remains to be seen what the "end result" will bring. He sure keeps Spicer and Conway and news reporters busy.

Thankfully there is a lot to offset the Trump negativity. The historical women`s marches, solidarity events to support Muslim communities, a Jewish community gave Muslims the key to their synagogue after their mosque burned down. And who would have thought Teen Vogue and Badlands National Park would speak out on Trump`s dishonesty while others attempted to normalise it?

Lots of people are showing self-awareness and start to regret their vote, especially those who were directly affected by his policies.
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  #119  
Old 04.02.2017, 17:29
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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Most Europeans that I know, especially Italians, are pro-Trump.

Tom
That doesn't surprise me.
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Old 04.02.2017, 17:46
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Re: A dismayed American wondering how to process the embarrassing actions of the POTU

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The curious thing I find about Trump is how he, as a billionaire living in an ivory and gold tower, was able to relate and communicate with hopelessly marginalised people who were economically suffering. This was supposedly the Left's domain, and they got it completely wrong. Trump certainly didn't need to, yet he had to stop and actually see what the world looks like from their perspective. One can cynically claim it was all strategy and analysis. I suspect that takes a bit more empathy and compassion to do this correctly. I do detect that possibility in Trump, although not 100% convince. I'm keeping an open mind either way. I'll judge it later by its end results.
They drank the poisonous Trump Koolaid...sadly.
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