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  #21  
Old 21.03.2017, 12:23
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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I just arrived from another planet.
That explains a lot.
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  #22  
Old 21.03.2017, 12:45
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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If his participation in the peace process occured after his membership of the murderous organisation, surely the net result is a positive.


Don't we believe in reconciliation and redemption?
Easier to say as an outsider I suppose.
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  #23  
Old 21.03.2017, 12:59
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

Bit of a non event. I agree with the guy who said "good".
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  #24  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:32
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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I know. Is it just me, I would never, ever use the word "good" after hearing about someones death. Even if I hated that person, I would at least have the good grace and dignity to say nothing.
How about "Oh dear, how sad, never mind".
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OK, I've just landed from another planet. I don't trust wikipedia or the BBC, but I've heard that EF is a reliable font of earthly wisdom.
No. But I am.
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  #25  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:35
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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Easier to say as an outsider I suppose.

Yes, fully aware. This is one I won't discuss with my 48 year old friend from Armagh.
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  #26  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:43
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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'Good' was my reaction too when I saw the news this morning, I never understood why he was lauded for bringing an end to the violence that he was organising.
Worked for Arafat. * I thought this thread wasn't controversial enough already.
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  #27  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:44
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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Yes, fully aware. This is one I won't discuss with my 48 year old friend from Armagh.
Some people won't shut up about it, though.


I knew a right tosser in Athens who decided he hated me just because I was English, and insisted on lecturing me for hours on the subject of "the occupation" as if I was personally responsible, when all I wanted to do was drink my Amstel and look at women like everyone else. Moving to another table didn't work as the bastard would just follow me and continue with his rant.


At the beginning I just responded with vague noises of agreement, but even that seemed to wind him up. "You understand, do you? You understand?! You ever had a Brit squaddie piss on your lovely garden? You have no idea, you Brit bastard!"


In the end I just let him rant away. He never got violent, fortunately, but he was a right pain in the arse.


There's nowt so queer as folk.
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  #28  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:55
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

RIP Martin.

As an Irishman brought up in a Republican household I am saddened by his death.
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  #29  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:04
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

Personally, I think that it couldn't have happened, as it did, without his engagement.

But I would leave it to the judgement of the hugely admirable father of Tim Parry:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-30476356.html

Out of something so terrible came some good.

If it's good enough for Colin Parry, it's good enough for me. What a man he is to have dealt with this in such a dignified and productive manner.
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  #30  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:10
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

Norman Tebbit's view on the man:

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  #31  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:32
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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RIP Martin.

As an Irishman brought up in a Republican household I am saddened by his death.
Nothing like being your own man view your own views...
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  #32  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:39
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

I pretty much feel the same way as when Ian Paisley died. That is, I really couldn't give a toss.
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  #33  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:46
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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Nothing like being your own man view your own views...
I have my own views. I have different views to those of my father. My view is that I am saddened by his passing. So there's no need for a dig like that.
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  #34  
Old 21.03.2017, 14:47
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

I am glad he has gone. Who will replace him, will they have blood on their hands too?
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  #35  
Old 21.03.2017, 15:05
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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I have my own views. I have different views to those of my father. My view is that I am saddened by his passing. So there's no need for a dig like that.
I'm sorry but that's not how it comes across.
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  #36  
Old 21.03.2017, 15:05
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

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RIP Martin.

As an Irishman brought up in a Republican household I am saddened by his death.
As an Irish woman brought up in the Republic, I am not particularly saddened. I saw him as two people: the thug and the politician. He did well as a politician, but I could not really see past the other.

As my NornIron OH said this morning: at least M.McGuinness was honest about his past, unlike the lying G. Adams.
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  #37  
Old 21.03.2017, 16:37
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

Well if Norman Tebbit says it then it must be true, not like he is biased of course.

You need two sides to go to war. McGuinness was totally evil, of that you can be sure, but the British weren't exactly angels either.

I certainly won't shed a tear over him.
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  #38  
Old 21.03.2017, 17:35
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

With a figure like Martin McGuinness, there will be people that venerate him and his lifes work, and equally people that despise who he was, what he stood for, and what he did.


Can the two views be reconciled? Probably not. Can there be a reasonable, respectful debate on these dissonant views between both sides? The modern history of Northern Ireland indicates this is unlikely.


I don’t believe it is realistic for anyone holding either view to expect that they can persuade the other side that their view is right, or having a better fit to the “facts”- as we all have our own subjective view of the political and extra-political realities that brought us to where we are today.


That said, I believe most of us would agree that Northern Ireland today is a better place than it was twenty, thirty, and more years ago for people of all persuasions. A better place with better opportunities for the young people of Northern Ireland, and for future generations- regardless of their religious traditions, their political self-identification, or their social backgrounds.


Could we have got to where we are today without the active engagement of hardline extremists- both Unionist and Republican extremists? I don’t believe it is politically realistic to think that we could have.


Like him or loathe him- Martin McGuinness is an intricate part of the massive structural changes to Northern Irish society that got us from where we were pre-Good Friday Agreement to where we are today. We couldn’t have got here without the engagement of militant Unionists either, such as (for example) Billy Hutchinson.


When the histories are written, Martin McGuinness will be very much part of that history. The republican-sympathetic histories will write him as a hero. The unionist-sympathetic histories will write him as a villain. If there is an objective truth, we’ll probably never have agreement on it until time has blurred those truths into something that none of us who lived through that monumental transition recognize.
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  #39  
Old 21.03.2017, 20:47
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

Well, Dod, I think you've effectively closed this thread off. There really isn't anything anybody else can say on this matter.

Best and most balanced post I've seen on the EF for a long time.

By the way I'm not closing the thread - after that post I don't think I need to.
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Old 22.03.2017, 09:40
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Re: Martin McGuinness Dies at 66

I think McGuinness will be judged to have been a hugely significant figure in the history of the island of Ireland during the last 100 years.
I grew up in Dublin which was in reality far removed from the troubles in northern Ireland. Like a majority of people in the republic of Ireland I had and still have very little time for Sinn Fein (although they have become more popular, possibly in part because of successive groups of imbeciles running the country for a while now) and far less for terrorists on both sides back in the day in N Ireland.
I believe McGuinness was utterly ruthless and focused pre-peace days in doing what he believed had to be done. And while I don't agree with the murdering of innocent civilians, I think his generation of IRA people were a result of years of appalling treatment to catholic people in N Ireland. So whilst its right in my opinion to speak critically of his past, at the same time people like him felt they had no choice. He didn't become a terrorist in a vacuum. Events like Bloody Sunday didn't help matters.
So I'm not sorry or glad that he's gone. But he was hugely significant in my opinion.
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