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  #21  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:01
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Re: London Bridge is down

I can't speak for any of the other nations of which QEII is head of state, but the conversion of the United Kingdom to a presidential democracy would come neither cheap nor easy.

For a start, the Crown Estates pay an awful lot of money to the government. Some of that gets paid back to cover expenses and security and so on, but the overwhelming majority of their profits go to the government (I can't remember the exact amount, but it's something like 94%). An uncrowned Windsor family would have human rights just like anyone else, so they'd be subject to the same tax regime as any other very rich family and the confiscation of their property would be out of the question.

Then there's the small difficulty of establishing the apparatus of a presidency. Where would she/he live? How would state events be funded? Security? National events which are currently part of the Queen's job description? None of this could be organised overnight, and it would almost certainly be more expensive than the current arrangement, once you remove the income mentioned in the previous paragraph.

So, yeah. It wouldn't be easy. And that's ignoring the fact that QEII has been an exemplary head of state. Who knows what kind of riff raff would end up taking her place? Knowing the puerile state of British politics, we'd probably have someone like Stephen Fry elected to sit and smirk at us like a neutered cat from a big chair in Westminster.

But that's all by the by. Ultimately what matters is that the British people would have the right to elect their own head of state, just as the people of most other civilised nations have.

Regardless of cost, inconvenience and Stephen Fry, it's the right thing to do.

Long Live the Republic!
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  #22  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:11
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Re: London Bridge is down

I found this article that states it's all a hoax and the 90 year old queen is up and kicking. Her mother (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother) lived to 101.Though the magazine in the link appears to be a bit dodgy as well. Then again, they don't seem to reveal the truth about these types of deaths immediately.
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  #23  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:12
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Re: London Bridge is down

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I found this article that states it's all a hoax and the 90 year old queen is up and kicking. Her mother (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother) lived to 101.Though the magazine in the link appears to be a bit dodgy as well. Then again, they don't seem to reveal the truth about these types of deaths immediately.
There is no hoax on this thread. Did you even read the OP?
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  #24  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:15
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Re: London Bridge is down

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When you look at Western Europe since the year 1800, the turmoil experienced in most European countries without a royal leader has been greatest in those without a continuing royal leadership.

Think of France, Germany, Russia & Italy with millions killed following their dictators. Then think of all the countries with a royal family: UK, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Spain & Luxembourg and then compare their citizens' comparatively peaceful lives: the exception being Kaiser William's Germany.
Since 1800 eh?

Italy had a monarchy until 1946
Germany until 1918
Russia until 1917

and history shows what the German and Russia monarchies caused.

OTOH Switzerland seems to function quite happily without one.

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On balance I believe that someone has to do the job, and why change a system that works fairly well, for one that must change every 4 or 5 years?
Because it is wholly unjust that anyone should be in such a position of power purely through accident of birth
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  #25  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:17
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Re: London Bridge is down

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There is no hoax on this thread. Did you even read the OP?
The article stated that "the death of the Queen is a hoax." not me. I didn't confirm it one way or the other.
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  #26  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:18
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Re: London Bridge is down

My fair lady....
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  #27  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:18
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Re: London Bridge is down

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The article stated that "the death of the Queen is a hoax." not me. I didn't confirm it one way or the other.
What has any hoax got to do with this thread? The OP is talking about the plans which are in place for the inevitable event of the Queen's death. He said nothing about her actually being dead, or any rumours about her being dead.
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  #28  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:22
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Re: London Bridge is down

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What has any hoax got to do with this thread? The OP is talking about the plans which are in place for the inevitable event of the Queen's death. He said nothing about her actually being dead, or any rumours about her being dead.
The OP wrote: "No it isn't fake news, it is the code that means the Queen of GB has died." I'm not going to go back and forth about this with you. Have a nice day!
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  #29  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:24
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Re: London Bridge is down

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The OP wrote: "No it isn't fake news, it is the code that means the Queen of GB has died." I'm not going to go back and forth about this with you. Have a nice day!
Did you even read the sentence you just quoted?
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  #30  
Old 25.03.2017, 12:50
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Re: London Bridge is down

Actually, I wasn't sure if the Queen had died as well. Perhaps the better sentence would have been:

This is the code to be used when the Queen dies.
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  #31  
Old 25.03.2017, 13:10
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Re: London Bridge is down

If Brexit and the queen's death happen at the same time, Britain will be in big turmoil.
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  #32  
Old 25.03.2017, 13:13
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Re: London Bridge is down

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If Brexit and the queen's death happen at the same time, Britain will be in big turmoil.
If Brexit and the queen's death and the return of the Great Old Ones happen at the same time, then you'll see big turmoil.
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  #33  
Old 25.03.2017, 13:36
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Re: London Bridge is down

Can we get back on topic, which is supposed to be, "Will Prince Charles be a good King?" not the merits of endless referendums.

I have already pointed out that with the death of the Queen, there will be 15 countries without a head of state. (Not 36 countries as I mistakenly wrote earlier), Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc

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From the Foreign Office’s Global Response Centre, at an undisclosed location in the capital, the news will go out to the 15 governments outside the UK where the Queen is also the head of state, and the 36 other nations of the Commonwealth for whom she has served as a symbolic figurehead

I think that is a gross oversight, as Charles will not automatically become head of the Commonwealth. So these 15 countries would be leaderless. Remember, the armed forces swear allegiance to the monarch (Queen, or Charles) not to a parliament nor to the country.

Perhaps as DB says, the opportunity would be there to quickly create a president, and cut Charles out of the loop. But I think there should be some preparations made for this catastrophe, (maybe they are made already?)
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  #34  
Old 25.03.2017, 13:45
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Re: London Bridge is down

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So these 15 countries would be leaderless.
On the contrary. All of the other countries (apart from the United Kingdom) of which QEII is head of state already have her proxy in place in the form of the Governor General or Viceroy or whatever he is called these days.

Even the United Kingdom will be able to function effectively in the short term unless the Prime Minister and his entire Cabinet peg it at the same time.

I would be surprised if several of her more distant colonies haven't already got plans in place for installing a republic as soon as she's out of the picture. I'd certainly expect the popularity of the monarchy to plummet once the dear ol' matriarch has gone. It isn't very high outside the United Kingdom as it is.
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  #35  
Old 26.03.2017, 11:29
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Re: London Bridge is down

I don't know about other countries, but I wouldn't call Canada "leaderless" when the queen dies. She's pretty much a figurehead only. The country is run by parliament.
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  #36  
Old 26.03.2017, 11:54
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Re: London Bridge is down

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I don't know about other countries, but I wouldn't call Canada "leaderless" when the queen dies. She's pretty much a figurehead only. The country is run by parliament.
Could you (or another Canadian) please explain Canada's 'crown land'

Is this just an old term, still in use, or does the queen actually have rights on all of that land still?

edit: nevermind, I looked it up. From Wiki:

"Within Canada, Crown Land is a designated territorial area belonging to the Canadian Crown.[7][8] Though the monarch owns all Crown Land in the country, it is divided in parallel with the "division" of the Crown among the federal and provincial jurisdictions, so that some lands within the provinces are administered by the relevant provincial Crown, whereas others are under the federal Crown. About 89% of Canada's land area (8,886,356 km²) is Crown Land: 41% is federal crown land and 48% is provincial crown land. The remaining 11% is privately owned.[9] Most federal Crown Land is in the territories (Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon) and is administered by Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada. Only 4% of land in the provinces is federally controlled, largely in the form of National Parks, Indian reserves, or Canadian Forces bases. In contrast, provinces hold much of their territory as provincial Crown Land, which may be held as Provincial Parks or wilderness. Crown Land is the equivalent of an entailed estate that passes with the monarchy and cannot be alienated from it; thus, per constitutional convention, these lands cannot be unilaterally sold by the monarch, instead passing on to the next king or queen unless the sovereign is advised otherwise by the relevant ministers of the Crown. Crown Land provides the country and the provinces with the majority of their profits from natural resources, largely but not exclusively provincial, rented for logging and mineral exploration rights; revenues flow to the relevant government and may constitute a major income stream, such as in Alberta. Crown Land may also be rented by individuals wishing to build homes or cottages."
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Last edited by pilatus1; 26.03.2017 at 13:29.
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  #37  
Old 26.03.2017, 22:21
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Re: London Bridge is down

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Could you (or another Canadian) please explain Canada's 'crown land'

Is this just an old term, still in use, or does the queen actually have rights on all of that land still?

edit: nevermind, I looked it up. From Wiki:

"Within Canada, Crown Land is a designated territorial area belonging to the Canadian Crown.[7][8] Though the monarch owns all Crown Land in the country, it is divided in parallel with the "division" of the Crown among the federal and provincial jurisdictions, so that some lands within the provinces are administered by the relevant provincial Crown, whereas others are under the federal Crown. About 89% of Canada's land area (8,886,356 km²) is Crown Land: 41% is federal crown land and 48% is provincial crown land. The remaining 11% is privately owned.[9] Most federal Crown Land is in the territories (Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon) and is administered by Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada. Only 4% of land in the provinces is federally controlled, largely in the form of National Parks, Indian reserves, or Canadian Forces bases. In contrast, provinces hold much of their territory as provincial Crown Land, which may be held as Provincial Parks or wilderness. Crown Land is the equivalent of an entailed estate that passes with the monarchy and cannot be alienated from it; thus, per constitutional convention, these lands cannot be unilaterally sold by the monarch, instead passing on to the next king or queen unless the sovereign is advised otherwise by the relevant ministers of the Crown. Crown Land provides the country and the provinces with the majority of their profits from natural resources, largely but not exclusively provincial, rented for logging and mineral exploration rights; revenues flow to the relevant government and may constitute a major income stream, such as in Alberta. Crown Land may also be rented by individuals wishing to build homes or cottages."
So a lot of Canada will be landlordless, not the same as leaderless.
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  #38  
Old 26.03.2017, 23:33
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Re: London Bridge is down

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The big question is, will Prince Charles Windsor be a good King and follow on with his mother's success?
I give him less than 10yrs before he abdicates (Dutch style) in favour of William. i don't believe Charles will be the steady pair of hands required for the job.

I'm not a Royalist per se. Hated the lot of them when I was younger, but have grown to appreciate the role as I get older. I like that it doesn't matter whose at the top of the political tree, there's always someone 'bigger' than them.

Before moving to Switzerland, we lived a couple of miles down the road from Windsor Castle. Could even see it from the bathroom window. When one of my best mates came to stay, I took him and his kids to the castle despite much protest as he's an ardent republican. It came down to... "I've bought and paid for the effin' tickets so you're effin' going!" The boys loved being in a real castle with real soldiers, and the 3yr old had everyone in stiches pretending to be a stormtrooper complete with theme tune. Dad moaned incessantly about the opulence, until I asked him what he plans on doing with his mum's huge Lladro collection when she pops her clogs. The penny dropped. He's still an ardent republican, but his reasons come from a sounder political basis these days.

I won't post it again on here, but there's a brilliant Billy Connolly sketch about a posh Christmas dinner party he went to that sums my feelings up in one word....Toboggan. I'm resolutely working class. I'm fine with the upper class. It's the middle class that piss me right off!
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  #39  
Old 27.03.2017, 09:18
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Re: London Bridge is down

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Actually, I wasn't sure if the Queen had died as well. Perhaps the better sentence would have been:

This is the code to be used when the Queen dies.
Why not just say that the queen has died, instead of using a silly code, does using a code give the situation more gravitas?
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  #40  
Old 27.03.2017, 10:33
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Re: London Bridge is down

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Why not just say that the queen has died, instead of using a silly code, does using a code give the situation more gravitas?
I think it is to do with informing everyone, that is competant to cope with the news, and whom won't panic and call Donald Trump.
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