Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 07.04.2017, 08:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 4,894
Groaned at 107 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 7,266 Times in 2,688 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

My parents - who were teachers worked for authorities other than the one we went to school in so holiday periods rarely coincided.

Now and again, family holidays were taken in term time - my academic career suffered totally. I never got a PhD! With those 4 weeks out of a total of 14 years of schooling I could now be Professor of Really Hard Sums at Difficult University!
Reply With Quote
The following 13 users would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 07.04.2017, 09:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

I never, ever set catch up work for children who take extraordinary holidays. Never have. I'll give the parents a list of subjects covered during their absence, and I'll expect them to make sure the children catch up. In rare cases, I've given a child a task to do while they are away - but never more than a single sheet of A4 on my side of the deal. Sickness and injury are a different story, obviously.


Apart from that, any problems with children taking time off are merely administrative. As illustrated in my "Vulgaria" post above, I'm a firm believer in a wider interpretation of education than that currently promoted by English officials. A child visiting Benidorm should not be doing times tables and spelling sheets. That is a complete waste of an opportunity. They should be meeting new children, having new experiences, maybe picking up a word or two of Spanish (or German, or Polish, or whatever). They should be feeling the sand run between their fingers. They should be gazing at a sunset. They should be playing volleyball with bare feet.


Reducing "education" to worksheets and vacation projects is demoralising and counterproductive. And it's the children who won't get to go to swim with dolphins or camp with yaks in the summer holidays who most need a complete, rounded education which includes new experiences, emotions and sensations of the kind that can never be provided in a grim school classroom in Grantham.


Thinking on it, this probably explains why I'm still a grunt and have never made it very far in school management... Heterodoxy will be punished!
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 07.04.2017, 11:19
moggy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Thurgau (& London, UK)
Posts: 1,626
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 893 Times in 584 Posts
moggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
Yep.

Anecdote alert: we had recent holiday in term time. Three weeks later, that same lodge, for the same time, was a little over twice what we paid. In the summer holiday, it's three times what we paid. In the first week of September, it goes back to being an awful lot cheaper.
Yes for hot summer locations, the 1st week in September is cheaper, but not the weeks later in September, somehow it is a slightly dead week. For the UK Parents, the last week in August, one can often get good rates at varying locations. I knew someone who let out a holiday cottage, they said the last week in July and 1st week of August they had umpteem requests, but often the last week in August was empty despite much lower cost / charge.

They only used to rent it out for holiday lets in the summer months. In the winter used to search someone to rent long term for minimal rent to keep the place aired and heated, as not a place for holidays in the winter.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07.04.2017, 11:45
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,888
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post
Would you prefer it if it were more expensive off-peak so the price could be lowered during peak weeks?
The travel industry has been closely watching today's ruling because they want families to be able to take holidays in term time as it spreads out their season more. Peak will always be July/August, but not because of UK schools. It's the months when most, not all, European schools are on holiday.

Quote:
View Post
However, it is no longer the case as Councils now have a blanket ban on all, no decision-making really happens anymore. You go, you're fined.. whatever the reason.
As has been touched on here, what really pees me off about today's decision are...
The defendants kids go to different schools that have different holidays.
The state run infant school imposes the fine as the older siblings' private school allows term time holidays, so yes, it is a 'pleb tax'.

One lad I went to school with had every Tuesday morning off to go for golf lessons with his dad!

Quote:
It seems to have escalated to the point where an element will ONLY take their holidays during off peak because they save a packet.
And what about parent's who have little control, or notice of, when they take leave? What about the armed forces, emergency services, overseas contractors, etc...?

From a very selfish and personal point of view, I'm disappointed with today's ruling. Every year in the UK, as soon as we could book holidays at work, I'd request whichever week included 5th July, because it's the mother-outlaw's birthday (she who must be obeyed in Athens) and she's in her late 80's. Just before moving to Switzerland, I was told that, as I'd managed to take the same holiday off two years on the trot, I wouldn't be granted it this year "because of school holidays".
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 07.04.2017, 11:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post
And what about parent's who have little control, or notice of, when they take leave? What about the armed forces, emergency services, overseas contractors, etc...?

From a very selfish and personal point of view, I'm disappointed with today's ruling. Every year in the UK, as soon as we could book holidays at work, I'd request whichever week included 5th July, because it's the mother-outlaw's birthday (she who must be obeyed in Athens) and she's in her late 80's. Just before moving to Switzerland, I was told that, as I'd managed to take the same holiday off two years on the trot, I wouldn't be granted it this year "because of school holidays".
To be fair, I said "an element". Sure there will be exceptional cases where it's really hard for parents with unpredictable professions to take kids during school holidays but a quick flick through comments sections of the various media outlets suggests there's definitely a defiant air of "f**k the schools, nobody's going to tell me I have to take holidays when it's expensive". How big that element is, is not clear though.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07.04.2017, 11:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

I will throw in the holidays are a luxury despite the groans from usual growling bears. Back in my grandmas day they were lucky to ride their Vespas with kids on the back to the seaside for one day. How times have changed. Now we all expect to have various holidays away per year, international travel & families need a generalissimo war plan to get through their week with extra curricular activities, skiing weekends etc to fit in.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07.04.2017, 12:13
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,473
Groaned at 283 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 14,808 Times in 4,541 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

I'm having a hard time following this discussion. Could someone please clarify:

- the differences between UK schools and Swiss schools holiday system


Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07.04.2017, 13:07
Pixie B's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,036
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 842 Times in 348 Posts
Pixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
Kindergarten in the UK isn't the same as here in Switzerland. You are probably thinking of nursery/creche/playschool in the UK, which isn't compulsory. The closest Swiss-Kindergarten equivalent in the UK is probably reception class, which is compulsory.
I was told that Reception is not compulsory; or rather, that schooling up to the age of 5 is not. As I had a June baby, and wanted to take her out of Reception class for a week in September for my own wedding in Spain; she was only 4 years old and I was told technically she was too young to need special permission. We still wrote a letter asking for official permission anyway.

Quote:
View Post
I'm having a hard time following this discussion. Could someone please clarify:

- the differences between UK schools and Swiss schools holiday system


Thank you!
I haven't been in the situation yet since having my kids in the Swiss system where we wanted time off out of school holidays. But I believe you can be granted at the discretion of the school? When I had mine in the UK system it was the same, but I think this thread is about that it has just changed or is about to? We had no joker days in the UK.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07.04.2017, 13:11
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,000
Groaned at 474 Times in 379 Posts
Thanked 21,365 Times in 8,762 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post

- the differences between UK schools and Swiss schools holiday system

The children speak French, German and Italian in Swiss schools.

The children speak Scottish, Welsh, Urdu, Polish and a bit of English in U.K. schools.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07.04.2017, 13:52
Pixie B's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,036
Groaned at 14 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 842 Times in 348 Posts
Pixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond reputePixie B has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post
The children speak French, German and Italian in Swiss schools.

The children speak Scottish, Welsh, Urdu, Polish and a bit of English in U.K. schools.
There are maaaannnnyyy more differences than that I have found after 4 years in the UK system and 3 years in the Swiss system! But with regards to holidays, not many differences. Both systems seem to only grant special permission for term time off at the discretion of the school.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07.04.2017, 14:10
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,749
Groaned at 297 Times in 254 Posts
Thanked 22,120 Times in 8,034 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

I think this case, the situation and this thread say more about the UK than about English parents... simply put: Different cultures have a different view on how far the state should get into private lives. Americans are convinced that parents pretty much own kids and can decide about their lives in any ways they want - just think of home schooling...

Scandinavians on the other hand strongly believe that kids have individual rights and that the government has the job to protect them... including from parents or relatives. Which is why you'd pretty quickly lose your children if you'd think of spanking them.

The UK seems to lean more towards the nanny state than the free for all approach. In my time at school was this simply a non-discussion: Parents had a self interest to send their kids to school. If there was something urgent, they'd do whatever they thought was best and typically sorted this out with a simple call to the teacher or headmaster. Nobody ever left during term for weeks. But then was I on a normal German state school and all schools in a 100km distance had the exact same term times...
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07.04.2017, 23:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post
I'm having a hard time following this discussion. Could someone please clarify:

- the differences between UK schools and Swiss schools holiday system


Thank you!
English state school holidays: October 1 week; Christmas 2 weeks; Feb 1 week; Easter 2 weeks; June 1 week and then 6 or 5.5 weeks off in Summer usually from July 20 until September the 1st.

Swiss have all their school breaks set at 2 weeks in Oct, at Christmas, in Feb and Easter, except Summer which is set at 5 weeks.

You may notice the UK lot in CH curse when their kids Sportferien clashes with the UK February break making Swiss Ski resorts very busy and expensive
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Yep- we always rent a châlet in the 4 valleys for uk half-term- and the cost is about 4 times what it would be before or after. But them are the rules- and at my grandkids school, all parents sign a contract agreeing not to take kids out outside of school hols- so there is no choice. A pain, I agree- but if you want the goodwill of the Senior staff, governors and teachers- then yes, a worthwhile price to pay.

It's of course not about individual kids- but the fact this taking kids out of school hols has become so common in UK- that deciding case by case is massively time consuming, with parents arguing and appealing decisions- and each case having to be explained, why this family was told yes, but that one no, etc, etc, etc. Staff have better things to do truly- and when teachers see kids struggling with catching up- especially those with special needs- they do spend their lunch, breaks, after school or in lesson time, to the detriment of others (who have not had the chance to go on a cheapo holiday- perhaps because their parents believe it is important not to)- to help them.

This is particularly so at secondary level- but also at primary. If the kid was away on the 2 weeks where long division was taught with lots of examples and repetitions- then said kid is not going to acquire this by miracle- especially if they come from a home where help is not forthcoming, for whatever reason.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
If the kid was away on the 2 weeks where long division was taught with lots of examples and repetitions- then said kid is not going to acquire this by miracle-
Good job every school in the world now uses the spiral curriculum, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

What is the class size where you taught I wonder? Ever tried teaching very mixed classes of 32?

Teaching languages at secondary and 6th Form Level- if a child is away when I taught how to use the accusative, or the Perfect tense- would really struggle on their return- and this especially if they have difficulties in the first place, do not have parents who can help, or indeed have special needs. My grandkids classes are large- unlike our local school here- and have many kids with special needs or handicapped - unlike here.

And as said, be it in Switzerland, or France, or Germany and most or probably all European countries- taking kids out of school during term-time is a total NO- and would be seen as a real lack of respect for the school, staff and other parents and children. Why is it so prevalent in the UK?

The number of times we had children with special needs taken away for a couple of weeks after months of extra time given to help them catch up and keep their heads up- and come back completely bereft and having to do it all again- is so disheartening, for the kids- and yes, for the staff too- and will at some point think 'why do I give so much of my time... and it is not respected'.

I used to give my lunchtimes, breaks, after school, often visiting kids at home ont he way home if they had a long illness or accident, and in the 6th Form often pregnant students, especially near exam time- and that was with the greatest of pleasure, and never regretted a minute of my time and extra effort preparing special ressources, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Yup. I've got a pretty broad range of experience in education. That's why no bugger will employ me any more - I cost too much!

But like I say - it's just administrative. If we can cope with children who are often sick, or who break a leg, or who have to go to Pakistan for a family wedding, we can cope with children who can only afford to go to Majorca during term time. It really isn't all that big a deal.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. Let's spend our energy and time to help those who can't help but be sick or have accidents or unavoidable real family emergencies- they are sadly numerous enough. Administration is done by real teachers - Heads of departments, Senior staff, Head teachers, Heads of year, Governors- they have enough to do directly related to education and the welfare of the students- to spent inordinate amounts of time talking, arguing, going to appeal, on a case by case basis.

So, culture wise- why do UK parents think it is ok and a 'right' to go on hols in term-time- and not other Europeans? There is really a marked difference. No-one 'needs' to go to Mallorca anyway- and certainly not the Domenican Republic or Florida. We certainly didn't when our kids were youn- we went to Spain for the first time when daughters were at Uni...Our neighbours and friends here here don't either. Priorities.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 08.04.2017, 02:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

What have class sizes and admin got to do with the holiday-in-term-time-debate? Or did I miss a crucial post? And Governors don't do admin. They do interfering.

All teachers do the kinds of things you describe, Odile. We can still bitch about it in the staffroom.

FYI, apart from SEN classes (and the one fun year when I had 33 SEN kids for a sodding double because they were all on that side of the timetable, 3 TAs and the kid with a prosthetic leg who was in/out/late/ whatever depending on whether or not he had his leg on or off in my GCSE for Reprobates class) the majority of my classes over the years have been 30 plus. My record is 61 but that was an administrative cock up sorted relatively quicklyish. I said if they'd install a mezzanine and give me a head set and mic I'd give it the old British try, but another room was found. I think one of the assistant heads was drafted to do some front line stuff.



It's a rubbish ruling, particularly if you have kids in different schools with different holiday dates.
It's not culture thing, it's a money thing. As I said before, a lot of families have precious little in the holiday fund.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 08.04.2017, 10:42
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,888
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
To be fair, I said "an element". Sure there will be exceptional cases where it's really hard for parents with unpredictable professions to take kids during school holidays but a quick flick through comments sections of the various media outlets suggests there's definitely a defiant air of "f**k the schools, nobody's going to tell me I have to take holidays when it's expensive". How big that element is, is not clear though.
Going off previous colleagues, it's a huge element. However, of my close friends, only 4 families don't have a teacher as one of the parents, so they're restricted to school holidays for their breaks. Another is a youth centre manager, so her peak periods are school holidays, and she's not supposed to take annual leave during those times.

It would probably be best if half term was even more staggered than it currently is, across the country. Perhaps something akin to the old Wakes weeks when an entire town had certain weeks for holidays.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 08.04.2017, 11:16
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK parents must obey school holiday rules

Quote:
View Post
I'm having a hard time following this discussion. Could someone please clarify:
- the differences between UK schools and Swiss schools holiday system
Thank you!
The two school systems are similar, but as usual the law in English was written in a very slack manner. One parent was fined, but appealed, and during this time parents were taking extra holidays. The case went up to the highest court, and he has just lost, and now there is no leeway on extra holidays.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
uk school rules




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Must find a tenant to replace us... what are the rules? Momof2 Housing in general 11 28.08.2013 22:48
Applied for school place, didn't take it up, didn't inform school. Must we pay? coffee123 Family matters/health 22 28.08.2011 10:02
Any parents sending their children to the Pre-School in Zurich Int School (Baden) cocolua Family matters/health 0 12.04.2011 11:10
rules for renting holiday apartments? voglia Housing in general 0 04.04.2011 04:27
ICS Zumikon Parents' Association Holiday Market Redhev123 Commercial events 0 27.11.2008 21:12


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0