Yes, sometimes it ends up like that - but hey ho...something must be done. The only thing that will stigmatise a minority group in such a situation will be their unwillingness to adapt. When you don't necessarily share the same values with the majority is hard. But there is some success rate, always.

Yes, I do realise that's a sort of arrogance, isn't it. Expecting our values to be so "seductive" and to quickly become everybody else's values. Funny, it never even crossed my mind to doubt the Western civilisation up to some level (I used to quickly disregard the colonisations, the wars for oil etc), at least till some years ago when the terrorist attacks and everything revealed a can of warms I wasn't really aware of. And yes, probably you're right, it has 0 relevance for others for so many reasons...but of course, most important being the cultural one.

As for EE? It is a younger and somehow better version of WE from some points of view. Why not attractive hehe. People are smarter, have souls. Are not so easy to be fooled, have a freedom you don't find here. Why be so modest MC. But I hope we'll do our best to stay out of this mess, I'm not very optimistic about human nature lately, neither about the myths of shared interests and mutual respect.

There's a very, very marked difference between Irish folk music and rebel songs. I can easily sing a few folk songs, seeing as it's a large part of my heritage, and my best mate can sing the rebel songs because she's 1st generation. One is lauded. The other gets you in shit with the parish priest.

What I'm finding disturbing, and said here a few days ago, is the continuing release of information to the US media, with newspapers publishing photos of the bomb scene that haven't been released in the UK. This is information that should only be shared with US intelligence, particularly during a live and fluid investigation, and not be being leaked to the media.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7752511.html

Washington has turned into a very leaky ship!
Despite the severe penalties, leaking of confidential/classified information is no longer a rare event but a regular daily occurrence.

From the information seeping out this seems to have been a very powerful bomb to do such damage when it was light enough to be carried by one person!
If the bomber was not also the bomb maker then they need to locate that person fast.

There was even a slip up from the resident 'security expert' on 'This Morning' yesterday, but they glossed over it. She said "Every three feet that they moved away from that suitcase when he placed it down..." Apparently, some survivors saw a guy put a suitcase down in the foyer in the path of where people would be exiting the arena, and thought it was suspicious, so they backed away from him. US media are detailing the brand of rucksack he was wearing. That's what I'd take for a 2 week holiday, not to collect someone from a gig, but because of the location of the Arena entrance, nobody would see it as suspicious until he entered the foyer, and even then, he could cover by going to one of the food vendors open at the end of the gigs.

It's also being reported that the bomb maker's 'signature' has been identified and that's why the arrests happened yesterday. The bomber was a mule.

Now, I haven't been through Victoria station since it was refurbished last year, but even as it was, the place was riddled with CCTV. The Arena is riddled with CCTV. The police will have every detail of him arriving at the station from every direction, and going to the Arena.

Mohammed Saeed El-Saeiti, the imam at the Didsbury Mosque, remembers Abedi as an dangerous extremist, the Daily Telegraph newspaper reports.
"Salman showed me the face of hate after my speech on Isis" said the imam. "He used to show me the face of hate and I could tell this person does not like me. It's not a surprise to me"

One would hope that the imam passed on this information to the authorities?

Source

Source

A community support worker, who did not wish to be named, said several years ago members of the public called an anti-terrorism hotline about Abedi after he publicly said "he was supporting terrorism" and "being a suicide bomber is ok".

A trustee, Fawaz Haffar, of the Manchester Islamic Centre, also known as the Didsbury Mosque, described the mosque as moderate, modern and liberal, and said he was a member of an organisation liaising with police.

Yes, several years ago some members of the public reported him for being an extremist.

But I would still expect the imam to have reported him as well considering that he 'remembers him as a dangerous extremist' and after the attack he said 'It's not a surprise to me'

Enough people must have reported him for this lunatic to have be known to the authorities. I suspect the Imam, or a representative, must have done so too under their duty of care. However there's no obligation for anyone to stand up and say "I reported him" is there. Nor should there be.

Hindsight is always 20-20 as they say. reporting is part of it - what the authorities do and how they continue to interact with the community is another unkown. Follow up is important.

Well it is possible he did. But I suspect had he reported him then he would've mentioned it by now - and the media would've been all over it.

I don't think the authorities would have done anything anyway.

Regardless I would still expect the imam to report him if he thought he was a dangerous extremist capable of an attack like this.

Why "would" the reporting have been mentioned? For some "told you so" credit? Or as a stick to beat the security services with? The very fact that the media are salivating over every detail would make me keep my own counsel I reckon.


So you keep saying. As would I. But ultimately we will never know and that is the way it has to be. Just as we will never know all that has been disclosed to the authorities about this horrendous attack. Just as it should be to be honest.

I have to say in the past 40 years, including Northern Ireland, I have never known any 100% completely innocent person being locked up on suspicion of terrorism, happy to be proved wrong. (UVF/IRA/ISIS sympathisers are not innocent)
I'm pretty sure my son or daughter or your children wont be locked up either.

If the tabloids are anything to go by today, it would appear that not only was this scum known to the authorities, his whole family maybe involved and part of a global group.

Known terrorist, living next door to 'you' and the authorities can do nothing about it.

Well that is until the next time one of that 'lone wolf' wants to blow up someones kids.

Innocent till proven guilty right, no point in trying to send a dead terrorist to court is there?

How the authorities deal with a report "He showed me the face of hate" I have no clue.

The authorities also have to deal with a lot of reports that have no firm facts behind them and might be based on jealousy or spite especially as in the UK one can report anonymously

As an example of the volume, the UK national Counter Terrorism Internet Referral Unit (CTIRU), instigates the removal of over 1,000 pieces of online material per week, including terrorist propaganda videos, pictures of beheadings, bomb-making instructions and speeches calling for racial or religious violence..

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It is naive to assume my posts are my own work

The mosque reported him to Prevent, which is the anti-radicalisation programme in the UK. His own mother reported him to an anti-terror hotline. He was on the terror watchlist in the UK and US.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...op-manchester/

Its adorable that you think the media would go to great lengths to report that.

The authorities did do something - they evaluated the threat and deemed it not worthy enough of follow up. The authorities got it very, very wrong.

Manchester police to stop sharing info after a second leak - and Mrs May will raise the issue with Trump later today at the NATO meeting.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40040210

Meanwhile a bomb disposal unit has been sent to a school in Hulme.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40043864

The imam mentioned that Abedi 'showed him the face of hate' after he gave an anti-extremist sermon.

Now mosque member Akram Ramadam claims that Abedi confronted the imam during the anti-extremist sermon and was subsequently banned. He also then claims that the mosque reported him to the authorities.

Strange that the imam didn't mention any of that if it is true?

How do you claim to know that the imam didn't mention any of that?

Have you access to the reporters notes?

Yet here is an interview with Akram Ramadam where he states that Abadi simply gave the imam a ''killer look'' and didn't say anthing

Strange!

I believe it was mentioned in the press call given by the mosque, yesterday or the day before. You should be able to view it on one of these sites.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/