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  #281  
Old 25.05.2017, 13:48
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

in any case, there was smoke before the fire so to speak.

now, one reason not to act on that is because there is smoke everywhere.

what would make an extremist stand out, if everybody is extreme?
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  #282  
Old 25.05.2017, 13:56
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I believe it was mentioned in the press call given by the mosque, yesterday or the day before.
I watched the press call but I didn't see any mention of it.

Seems like the mosque is going into damage control.
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  #283  
Old 25.05.2017, 13:58
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

One reason, but the most likely reason, at least in the case of the UK, is the lack of manpower thanks to systematic cutbacks in policing over the last decade or so.

We can all do a fault and blame trail back to source, and come up with a different answer. Mine would go back to hedge fund managers prior to 2008 and even further back to Jimmy Carter's black market arms sent from Sweden to the Mujahideen in the 80's. But we're here and now...so must deal with this in the present tense.

I'll say it again... We need to come down hard and heavily on the Saudis and get them to cut off Daesh funding from their countrymen.
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  #284  
Old 25.05.2017, 14:02
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Seems like the mosque is going into damage control.
They say they reported him to Prevent ..

http://www.ltai.info/
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  #285  
Old 25.05.2017, 14:08
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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They say they reported him to Prevent ..

http://www.ltai.info/
Where?

Here's an article about the statement from Didsbury mosque and here is a video of it.

Where do they say they reported him to Prevent?
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  #286  
Old 25.05.2017, 14:25
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I have to say in the past 40 years, including Northern Ireland, I have never known any 100% completely innocent person being locked up on suspension of terrorism, happy to be proved wrong. (UVF/IRA/ISIS sympathisers are not innocent)
I'm pretty sure my son or daughter or your children wont be locked up either.

If the tabloids are anything to go by today, it would appear that not only was this scum known to the authorities, his whole family maybe involved and part of a global group.

Known terrorist, living next door to 'you' and the authorities can do nothing about it.

Well that is until the next time one of that 'lone wolf' wants to blow up someones kids.

Innocent till proven guilty right, no point in trying to send a dead terrorist to court is there?
Examples;

Nottinghamshire Police have agreed to pay £20,000 to a Muslim student, who claimed he was wrongly arrested as a terror suspect.
Source

The Birmingham Six were six men—Hugh Callaghan, Patrick Joseph Hill, Gerard Hunter, Richard McIlkenny, William Power and John Walker—falsely sentenced to life imprisonment in 1975 in England for the Birmingham pub bombings. Their convictions were declared unjust and unsatisfactory and quashed by the Court of Appeal on 14 March 1991. The six men were later awarded compensation ranging from £840,000 to £1.2 million.
Source

A Muslim police worker who was "maliciously" reported to the anti-terrorist squad by colleagues after the July 7 bombings has been awarded almost £14,000 compensation.
Source

Algerian wrongly accused of training 9/11 pilots can claim compensation
· Muslim held for over four months at Belmarsh
Source
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  #287  
Old 25.05.2017, 14:49
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Examples;

Nottinghamshire Police have agreed to pay £20,000 to a Muslim student, who claimed he was wrongly arrested as a terror suspect.
Source

The Birmingham Six were six men—Hugh Callaghan, Patrick Joseph Hill, Gerard Hunter, Richard McIlkenny, William Power and John Walker—falsely sentenced to life imprisonment in 1975 in England for the Birmingham pub bombings. Their convictions were declared unjust and unsatisfactory and quashed by the Court of Appeal on 14 March 1991. The six men were later awarded compensation ranging from £840,000 to £1.2 million.
Source

A Muslim police worker who was "maliciously" reported to the anti-terrorist squad by colleagues after the July 7 bombings has been awarded almost £14,000 compensation.
Source

Algerian wrongly accused of training 9/11 pilots can claim compensation
· Muslim held for over four months at Belmarsh
Source
OK 9 in 40 years, in fact I'll make it 10 and include the poor Brazilian guy shot in London.

Now tell me, how many innocent people in the last 40 years have been killed by a known terrorist.

Lets start with 22 the other night.
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  #288  
Old 25.05.2017, 14:53
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Seems like the mosque is going into damage control.
After ever Islamic terror attack, I keep reading headlines like "Muslim Population Fears Backlash" apparently to protect/victimize the Muslim population ...however keep in mind, British Muslims are downloading terrorist propaganda at quite an alarming rate, and there are already several thousand British Muslims under surveillance, which is already difficult for authorities to monitor, and that's probably only a fraction of terror supporters, much less sympathizers...so I wouldn't be so fast to say the British Muslim population is entirely innocent.

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A terrorist magazine which gives step by-step guides on how to make a bomb and urges an attack on the UK is being read by 4,000 Britons a week, according to a report.
The online magazine titled Inspire, released by al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), has been downloaded 55,000 times from UK IP addresses in the past three months, according the Sun on Sunday.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/al-qaeda-te...mes-uk-1483954
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  #289  
Old 25.05.2017, 15:12
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I have to say in the past 40 years, including Northern Ireland, I have never known any 100% completely innocent person being locked up on suspicion of terrorism,.
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OK 9 in 40 years, .
Those were examples, not a full list
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  #290  
Old 25.05.2017, 15:27
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Those were examples, not a full list
I get that....(I can do the roll eyes thingy as well).

Point being.........................forget it, I'm sure you know my point.
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  #291  
Old 25.05.2017, 15:35
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I get that....(I can do the roll eyes thingy as well).

Point being.........................forget it, I'm sure you know my point.
The point being that teacher punishes the whole class with detention because he/she doesn't know who made funny noises in class. How did you fell then? Pretty angry because you were punished for something you didn't do. So, we can arrest some innocents among all the baddies and it's mostly ok.

It's not OK. With the level of intelligence around these days it doesn't even need to happen.

Give the police/intelligence people the money they need and let them do a proper job.
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  #292  
Old 25.05.2017, 15:49
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Now tell me, how many innocent people in the last 40 years have been killed by a known terrorist.

Lets start with 22 the other night.
Well the Provisional IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,781 people up to 2004, how many were "known" terrorists I do not know since I do not know your definition of "known terrorist".

Obscure fact; about 120 Provisional IRA members caused their own deaths, almost all when they were killed by their own explosives in premature bombing accidents

84 killed by Islamist extremists plus another 270 if you include Lockerbie/Pan Am Flight 103; Libya formally admitted responsibility for Pan Am Flight 103 in a letter presented to the president of the United Nations Security Council.
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  #293  
Old 25.05.2017, 15:59
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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The point being that teacher punishes the whole class with detention because he/she doesn't know who made funny noises in class. How did you fell then? Pretty angry because you were punished for something you didn't do. So, we can arrest some innocents among all the baddies and it's mostly ok.

It's not OK. With the level of intelligence around these days it doesn't even need to happen.

Give the police/intelligence people the money they need and let them do a proper job.
Mostly when people get arrested and then released its not because they were totally innocent but because of insufficient evidence.

Sometimes arrests can also be tactical. If the bad guys realize you are getting close (because for example you arrest somebody who is technically innocent, but closely linked to people who aren't) they often panic and do something stupid that gives them away.
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  #294  
Old 25.05.2017, 16:04
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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The point being that teacher punishes the whole class with detention because he/she doesn't know who made funny noises in class. How did you fell then? Pretty angry because you were punished for something you didn't do. So, we can arrest some innocents among all the baddies and it's mostly ok.

It's not OK. With the level of intelligence around these days it doesn't even need to happen.

Give the police/intelligence people the money they need and let them do a proper job.
Punishing the majority for the sins of a minority is also known as Collective Punishment; this is a form of retaliation whereby a suspected perpetrator's family members, friends, acquaintances, sect, neighbors or entire ethnic group is targeted.
The punished group may often have no direct association with the other individuals or groups, or direct control over their actions.

Generally, I believe, collective punishment has not been a successful method.
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  #295  
Old 25.05.2017, 16:27
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Well the Provisional IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,781 people up to 2004, how many were "known" terrorists I do not know since I do not know your definition of "known terrorist".

Obscure fact; about 120 Provisional IRA members caused their own deaths, almost all when they were killed by their own explosives in premature bombing accidents

84 killed by Islamist extremists plus another 270 if you include Lockerbie/Pan Am Flight 103; Libya formally admitted responsibility for Pan Am Flight 103 in a letter presented to the president of the United Nations Security Council.
According to Wikipedia ISIS has carried out roughly 50 Suicide bomb attacks in the last 4 years alone.

Comparing ISIS to the IRA doesn't really make sense. Yes, both engaged in terrorism, but the IRA didn't resort to suicide missions. 120 PIRA members blew themselves up, presumably all by accident, over a very long period. ISIS "operatives" appear, for the most part, to be perfectly willing to carry out only a single "operation" without even bothering to contemplate an escape strategy.

Different enemies... ergo different problems.

Amongst other things this means that ISIS "Known terrorists" (once they've been positively identified) are already dead, and with that, no longer an active threat.
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  #296  
Old 25.05.2017, 16:27
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Mostly when people get arrested and then released its not because they were totally innocent but because of insufficient evidence.

Sometimes arrests can also be tactical. If the bad guys realize you are getting close (because for example you arrest somebody who is technically innocent, but closely linked to people who aren't) they often panic and do something stupid that gives them away.
Historians generally view the period of (IRA) internment (Operation Demetrius) as inflaming sectarian tensions in Northern Ireland, while failing in its goal of arresting key members of the IRA.
Many of the people arrested had no links whatsoever with the IRA, but their names appeared on the list of those to be arrested through bungling and incompetence.
The list's lack of reliability and the arrests that followed, complemented by reports of internees being abused far in excess of the usual state violence,led to more nationalists identifying with the IRA and losing hope in non-violent methods.
After Operation Demetrius, recruits came forward in huge numbers to join the Provisional and Official wings of the IRA.
Internment also led to a sharp increase in violence.
In the eight months before the operation, there were 34 conflict-related deaths in Northern Ireland.
In the four months following it, 140 were killed.

A serving officer of the British Royal Marines declared:
It (internment) has, in fact, increased terrorist activity, perhaps boosted IRA recruitment, polarised further the Catholic and Protestant communities and reduced the ranks of the much needed Catholic moderates.

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  #297  
Old 25.05.2017, 19:02
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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After ever Islamic terror attack, I keep reading headlines like "Muslim Population Fears Backlash" apparently to protect/victimize the Muslim population ...however keep in mind, British Muslims are downloading terrorist propaganda at quite an alarming rate, and there are already several thousand British Muslims under surveillance, which is already difficult for authorities to monitor, and that's probably only a fraction of terror supporters, much less sympathizers...so I wouldn't be so fast to say the British Muslim population is entirely innocent.
Doesn't matter how many are downloading terrorist propaganda or how many thousands are under surveillance, for the leftists they shall forever be a fringe minority.
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  #298  
Old 25.05.2017, 20:57
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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  #299  
Old 25.05.2017, 21:50
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

Don't worry, you are safe- UKIP supporters want to bring back death penalty for suicide bombers
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Old 25.05.2017, 22:06
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

Critical...not severe.
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