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  #121  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:28
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

It honestly pains me to read how this thread has degenerated to insults and vulgarity towards each other, it's a sad demonstration of how we have all been affected by what has happened back home. The many different approaches offered up by EF members of how to face the situation, reactions and solutions seem to cover the whole field, I for one would not know where to start. Will we return to the days of the IRA attacks where everyone was physically searched whenever entering department stores, shops, cinemas and concerts? This may well be a way to catch anyone who has managed to slip through the undercover terrorist investigations as it seems this bomber may have.
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  #122  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:32
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Their objective is to garner the maximum of attention and to do this such venues and concert halls are high on the the list of targets unfortunately.

If children are involved this increases the outrage and awareness of the atrocity.

I fear until their is an all out war not a lot can happen. Dialogue doesn't work, opur efforts so far have have very mixed results too, and it was the Western world that involved themselves way back in 1990, although arguably well before.

I'm as horified as anybody else about the useless slaughter of my fellow beings, but expressing outrage, stopping election campaigns just doesn't seem to be having any effect, maybe it's time to review some of the more liberal attitutes our politicians have imposed on us ?

Not an easy decision, but at some point, we'll need to bite the bullet
They'll do anything to create a divide...helping to increase the every widening gap of understanding and cultural sensitivities between Muslims and the rest and in turn hope that more turn to their ideology. Hate fueling hate...sad to see and hear.
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  #123  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:33
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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It honestly pains me to read how this thread has degenerated to insults and vulgarity towards each other, it's a sad demonstration of how we have all been affected by what has happened back home. The many different approaches offered up by EF members of how to face the situation, reactions and solutions seem to cover the whole field, I for one would not know where to start. Will we return to the days of the IRA attacks where everyone was physically searched whenever entering department stores, shops, cinemas and concerts? This may well be a way to catch anyone who has managed to slip through the undercover terrorist investigations as it seems this bomber may have.
doesn't look like that would help anyway, everyone was searched before going into the concert but is seems like this guy walked into the entrance of the arena after the concert, you just can't stop this kind of thing, he could just as easily walked into a crowd getting off the trains in rush hour etc the target seems have been chosen to cause maximum outrage and headlines - it worked
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  #124  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:37
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Absolutely, to a younger generation it may seem new, but for a few slightly older persons it reignites memories from the past, in 1983 my parents were lucky to find themselves inside the wrong end of Harrods when the IRA set their bomb off. In 1981 there was the Chelsea Barracks bombing, in 1982 there were the Hyde Park (Lifeguards Household Cavalry bombed whilst out exercising their horses) and Regent's Park bombings (placed under a bandstand during a concert given by the Royal Green Jackets). This is not new.
I think the different today is alot of these attacks aren't centrally planned or coordinated. I doubt someone in a 'terror cell' even knows they're being planned or carried out until after/just before they're done. The IRA (from what I know) did not have lone-wolf style attacks which were retrospectively linked to them...

This makes it all the more hard to track and stop, it's easier probably to foil those 'bigger' plans (e.g. involving planes, high-profile targets, national events etc.) whilst you miss something like this which flies under the radar...

It's why we'll get less and less of the big attacks but more of the small groups/individuals acting independently...
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  #125  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:44
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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doesn't look like that would help anyway, everyone was searched before going into the concert but is seems like this guy walked into the entrance of the arena after the concert, you just can't stop this kind of thing, he could just as easily walked into a crowd getting off the trains in rush hour etc the target seems have been chosen to cause maximum outrage and headlines - it worked
Just as daft as airports. I've been at Zurich Airport in a queue of at least 200 people waiting for the security check. What's the point? A bomber just needs to get in the middle of the queue. Same with check-in and the same at the Manchester Arena foyer area...
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  #126  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:47
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Just as daft as airports. I've been at Zurich Airport in a queue of at least 200 people waiting for the security check. What's the point? A bomber just needs to get in the middle of the queue. Same with check-in and the same at the Manchester Arena foyer area...
Noticed in higher-risk countries/cities (Mumbai for example) they make you scan all your luggage before you even enter the airport. Then once again when you go through regular security...and then one more time before you get on the plane.

But then in Thailand, some of the airports didn't scan you until just before boarding the plane...strange.

I guess some countries are more concerned about an airport being the actual target rather than the plane itself...
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  #127  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:53
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Just as daft as airports. I've been at Zurich Airport in a queue of at least 200 people waiting for the security check. What's the point? A bomber just needs to get in the middle of the queue. Same with check-in and the same at the Manchester Arena foyer area...
Noticed in higher-risk countries/cities (Mumbai for example) they make you scan all your luggage before you even enter the airport. Then once again when you go through regular security...and then one more time before you get on the plane.

But then in Thailand, some of the airports didn't scan you until just before boarding the plane...strange.

I guess some countries are more concerned about an airport being the actual target rather than the plane itself...
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  #128  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:53
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Noticed in higher-risk countries/cities (Mumbai for example) they make you scan all your luggage before you even enter the airport. Then once again when you go through regular security...and then one more time before you get on the plane.

But then in Thailand, some of the airports didn't scan you until just before boarding the plane...strange.

I guess some countries are more concerned about an airport being the actual target rather than the plane itself...
This used to be the case at Belfast International airport. There was a vehicle spot-check on the approach road, then a luggage scanner at the entrance to the terminal itself.
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  #129  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:56
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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This used to be the case at Belfast International airport. There was a vehicle spot-check on the approach road, then a luggage scanner at the entrance to the terminal itself.
Interesting, the most I've seen in Europe is sporadic police stops when approaching the airport - but not sure what triggers them being there.

A few months ago the police were stopping all cars driving up the ramp towards the Pick-Up zone at Zurich airport. They'd stop everyone, shine a light in the car and in some cases do a more 'thorough' check on the side of the road.
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  #130  
Old 23.05.2017, 15:57
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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But then in Thailand, some of the airports didn't scan you until just before boarding the plane...strange..
Same in Singapore, you just walk in (well you need a ticket of course). Security check does not happen until you are literally at the gate.

As we're being proven on a regular basis, chances that someone detonates a bomb on a plane are really quite slim, compared to bombs detonating at random other places. At the end of the day, whoever wants to bomb him-/herself up will find a way. Harsh, but well.
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  #131  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:00
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Same in Singapore, you just walk in (well you need a ticket of course). Security check does not happen until you are literally at the gate.
That might be the airport I'm talking about then, we had a stop over there between Thailand and Indonesia...

Maybe Singapore considers itself extremely safe...
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  #132  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:03
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Well I'd rather live in a country where I knew it was safe to send my kid to a concert and know that she will come back in one piece, but hey each to their own.
Except, in a country where people can be detained at will and "in dubio pro reo" doesn't apply, it may no longer be your or your daughter's decision how or where she spends the night.
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  #133  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:04
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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That might be the airport I'm talking about then, we had a stop over there between Thailand and Indonesia...

Maybe Singapore considers itself extremely safe...
From Thailand to Indo, you likely stopped in Singapore yes. I can't remember how security in Bangkok worked, haven't been back in a few years.

Singapore IS safe, but it's also the largest (I think) airport in the area, a major hub in Southeast Asia. Pretty much everything passes through there. So I have to admit it is quite interesting that there seems to be a less strict approach to security checks (or paranoia about it), especially compared to other countries and airports (Heathrow. Ugh)
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  #134  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:14
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I think the different today is alot of these attacks aren't centrally planned or coordinated. I doubt someone in a 'terror cell' even knows they're being planned or carried out until after/just before they're done. The IRA (from what I know) did not have lone-wolf style attacks which were retrospectively linked to them...

This makes it all the more hard to track and stop, it's easier probably to foil those 'bigger' plans (e.g. involving planes, high-profile targets, national events etc.) whilst you miss something like this which flies under the radar...

It's why we'll get less and less of the big attacks but more of the small groups/individuals acting independently...
There were dissident groups and factions who did not obey central coordination; more lone wolf pack than lone wolf
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  #135  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:25
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Sooner or later there's going to be a far right attack on a mosque/faith school/muslim business. Tit will be followed by tat. Successive failures to confront the problem will have lead to this situation.
There was an attack on a mosque in Zurich this year... if there is one thing to learn than that locals attacking muslims have mental problems. If a Muslim attacks, even if he is locally born and raised, does he not have mental problems... but clearly is a terrorist. If we'd start to stop giving them credit for their alleged religion and motives, but see them for what they are - typically losers who failed in life, no education, no job, typically small time criminals, drug abuse history,... - if we would not make them martyrs but really just portray them properly in the media... maybe more young men of the same type would be discouraged to do the same. Given the media frenzies every time do I at least partially understand the appeal - if you were a loser all your life and you happen to have some egomanic disorders... is this one of the few ways "to be somebody"... even in death.
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  #136  
Old 23.05.2017, 16:41
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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There was an attack on a mosque in Zurich this year... if there is one thing to learn than that locals attacking muslims have mental problems. If a Muslim attacks, even if he is locally born and raised, does he not have mental problems... but clearly is a terrorist. If we'd start to stop giving them credit for their alleged religion and motives, but see them for what they are - typically losers who failed in life, no education, no job, typically small time criminals, drug abuse history,... - if we would not make them martyrs but really just portray them properly in the media... maybe more young men of the same type would be discouraged to do the same. Given the media frenzies every time do I at least partially understand the appeal - if you were a loser all your life and you happen to have some egomanic disorders... is this one of the few ways "to be somebody"... even in death.
i doubt that swiss-ghanian was right extremist, by the way.
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  #137  
Old 23.05.2017, 17:00
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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CBS reporting that attacker was Salman Abedi a 23 year old UK citizen or resident. Not yet confirmed by police though.
Throughout the night, I found it a bit disturbing that US news channels were breaking news up to 1hr before UK channels. When a situation is active and fluid on the ground, is it right that any news channel releases info about the ongoing investigation before the police do?

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Strange because the issues you described affect many different people from different backgrounds yet they don't all seem to blow themselves and others up at the same rate.

Maybe there's something else that links all these attackers?
Being knobheads mostly. The one's that aren't get jobs in pyrotechnics or at BAE Systems.

The last UK bombing I dealt with in a work capacity was 2008 Exeter. That shows how rare these incidents are in the UK.

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This used to be the case at Belfast International airport. There was a vehicle spot-check on the approach road, then a luggage scanner at the entrance to the terminal itself.
The three ring security system would be ideal, but I doubt the public will accept 3hrs to get through security for a 1 or 2 hr flight, whereas it's standard in certain parts of the World, such as Oliver Tambo - Johannesburg, who incidently, had a shooting at the airport the other day.
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  #138  
Old 23.05.2017, 17:19
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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There was an attack on a mosque in Zurich this year... if there is one thing to learn than that locals attacking muslims have mental problems. If a Muslim attacks, even if he is locally born and raised, does he not have mental problems... but clearly is a terrorist. If we'd start to stop giving them credit for their alleged religion and motives, but see them for what they are - typically losers who failed in life, no education, no job, typically small time criminals, drug abuse history,... - if we would not make them martyrs but really just portray them properly in the media... maybe more young men of the same type would be discouraged to do the same. Given the media frenzies every time do I at least partially understand the appeal - if you were a loser all your life and you happen to have some egomanic disorders... is this one of the few ways "to be somebody"... even in death.

What about the nine eleven hijackers? Were they not all well educated and from wealthy backgrounds? Not to mention Bin Laden himself.
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  #139  
Old 23.05.2017, 17:38
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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What about the nine eleven hijackers? Were they not all well educated and from wealthy backgrounds? Not to mention Bin Laden himself.

I think he is speaking of those who get radicalized in the (western) country they were born and raised. Typically, but not exclusively, people with lower education, no job etc. Especially caucasian converts.
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  #140  
Old 23.05.2017, 17:45
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I think he is speaking of those who get radicalized in the (western) country they were born and raised. Typically, but not exclusively, people with lower education, no job etc. Especially caucasian converts.
Two of the four 2005 London bombers were university educated.
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