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  #141  
Old 23.05.2017, 17:59
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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There was an attack on a mosque in Zurich this year... if there is one thing to learn than that locals attacking muslims have mental problems. If a Muslim attacks, even if he is locally born and raised, does he not have mental problems... but clearly is a terrorist. If we'd start to stop giving them credit for their alleged religion and motives, but see them for what they are - typically losers who failed in life, no education, no job, typically small time criminals, drug abuse history,... - if we would not make them martyrs but really just portray them properly in the media... maybe more young men of the same type would be discouraged to do the same. Given the media frenzies every time do I at least partially understand the appeal - if you were a loser all your life and you happen to have some egomanic disorders... is this one of the few ways "to be somebody"... even in death.
so if somebody is a loser, the best thing to do about that is to tell everybody he is a loser?

I don't think that works.

Look at the gang warfare in US cities for example. In the eyes of most of the population these gangsters are losers. But in the eyes of their own peers they are heroes.
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  #142  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:01
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Two of the four 2005 London bombers were university educated.
We can maybe agree that most terrorists, even those who can fly planes, aren't very good at landing them.

Maybe plane landing skills are a good indicator of terrorist potential?
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  #143  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:05
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I think he is speaking of those who get radicalized in the (western) country they were born and raised. Typically, but not exclusively, people with lower education, no job etc. Especially caucasian converts.
With out wishing to get into detail, in my experience, that's patently not true. The 'worst' convert I know, besides his parents divorcing when he was a child, had every financial and educational advantage afforded to him.
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  #144  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:21
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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i doubt that swiss-ghanian was right extremist, by the way.
I doubt that half the guys who did the attacks in Belgium (or most of the Europeans who joined IS) have any clue about Islam. It's pretty simple: In the 80s would any young angry guy protesting society become a punk, in the 70s a hippie, in the 60s one of the various flavours of left winged extremists.... If you happen to be young today and you really want to piss off your neighbours... you grow yourself a beard and tell them that they'll go to hell if they don't live according to some bronze age myths. I don't know how we ended up like this, but it clearly works. There is some appeal to young men in their late teens and early 20s who have trouble finding their spot in society.

Once you are in some tight social circle the same stuff happens that you can see with any other form of extreme behaviour... if you for example start to hang out with neo-nazis will you quite quickly become one. Same for all other types of terrorists or extreme movements from political views over religion to sects or down to the more comitted people in their hobbies. That's the point where it is too late. You should not stop terrorists from carrying out attacks, you need to stop kids from becoming radical Muslims in the first place.
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  #145  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:24
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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What about the nine eleven hijackers? Were they not all well educated and from wealthy backgrounds? Not to mention Bin Laden himself.
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Two of the four 2005 London bombers were university educated.
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With out wishing to get into detail, in my experience, that's patently not true. The 'worst' convert I know, besides his parents divorcing when he was a child, had every financial and educational advantage afforded to him.
Hard for us armchair Psychologists to figure out the whys and wherefores here.

Anecdotal evidence, I once had a colleague of this faith who was well educated and seemed to be well integrated. He would even come down to the pub with us on a Friday night and drink alcohol.

He had a long time relationship with a Christian Swiss girl; we were all stunned when he said to her one day "Sorry, I cannot see you anymore, my parents have found me a wife". Off he went and got married, go figure!
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  #146  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:33
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Theres a world of difference between explaining something and justifying it. Lets not lose our heads.


Rainer wasnt justifying it. S/He was offering an explanation for it.
Explanations are going to help great deal to the grieving families. Right?

As long as we all understand.



Everybody understands. High level of understanding and tolerance, in fact, can be unsafe.
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  #147  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:39
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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i doubt that swiss-ghanian was right extremist, by the way.
Depends on your/his definiton of religion. Occultism, which he reportedly was quite into, may well serve as one.
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  #148  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:43
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Throughout the night, I found it a bit disturbing that US news channels were breaking news up to 1hr before UK channels. When a situation is active and fluid on the ground, is it right that any news channel releases info about the ongoing investigation before the police do?


Being knobheads mostly. The one's that aren't get jobs in pyrotechnics or at BAE Systems.

The last UK bombing I dealt with in a work capacity was 2008 Exeter. That shows how rare these incidents are in the UK.

The three ring security system would be ideal, but I doubt the public will accept 3hrs to get through security for a 1 or 2 hr flight, whereas it's standard in certain parts of the World, such as Oliver Tambo - Johannesburg, who incidently, had a shooting at the airport the other day.
3 hours to get through OT in Johanesbhrg....you vastly exagerate madame, takes no mkre than any other airport, and i've been 3 times already this year
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  #149  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:50
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Look, this has nothing to do with religion, no religion - and yes this includes Islam, condones or preaches that its follows should go out and kill children, iirc the Koran is quite clear killing innocent people is a huge no no.

these people have been brainwashed, islam is a nice hook.
My understanding is that according to the Koran there are circumstances where it is ok to kill people who aren't considered innocent.

Or am I wrong?
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  #150  
Old 23.05.2017, 18:55
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Will we return to the days of the IRA attacks where everyone was physically searched whenever entering department stores, shops, cinemas and concerts? This may well be a way to catch anyone who has managed to slip through the undercover terrorist investigations as it seems this bomber may have.
It seems that the UK has a much bigger problem than the Brexit, after all.
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  #151  
Old 23.05.2017, 19:24
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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My understanding is that according to the Koran there are circumstances where it is ok to kill people who aren't considered innocent.

Or am I wrong?
Only if you take those verses out of context.

In the city of Jerusalem, which has been ruled by Muslims for most of the last 13 centuries, the sacred sites of Jews and Christians have been protected, and those communities themselves have for the most part been able to live in peace together with Muslims. The assertion that Islam or the Quran inherently call for a “war on unbelievers” is sheer fallacy and fantasy.

Also you are supposed to give people the opportunity to repent before taking violent action which is kind of hard to do if you blow them up before talking to them
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  #152  
Old 23.05.2017, 20:37
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

And this is why terrorists never win.

"Stories of acts of kindness are emerging in the wake of the Manchester attack, with many people from the community rushing to help - offering free lifts home and rooms for the night."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40011977
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  #153  
Old 23.05.2017, 21:04
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Will we return to the days of the IRA attacks where everyone was physically searched whenever entering department stores, shops, cinemas and concerts? This may well be a way to catch anyone who has managed to slip through the undercover terrorist investigations as it seems this bomber may have.
It would have made no difference in this instance, as the attacker was outside the venue & he chose his position to do the damage when the explosion happened.

I believe the music venues will be doing some sort of search of people and are suggesting people bring very small bags to help speed process up.
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  #154  
Old 23.05.2017, 22:08
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

From Fox News

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Geraldo Rivera ✔ @GeraldoRivera
Many terrorists arrested in mowing down of pedestrians outside Westminster London in March were from #Manchester hotbed of Islamic radicals
Who knew

Problem is there will be many people who believe him!
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  #155  
Old 23.05.2017, 22:16
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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My understanding is that according to the Koran there are circumstances where it is ok to kill people who aren't considered innocent.

Or am I wrong?
You are of course totally correct, children can never be considered innocent go troll another thread
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  #156  
Old 23.05.2017, 22:45
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

If only there was some linkage between all these terror attacks...a clue...some overlap in the perpetrators of the terrorism...similarities...a belief system...something...oh well, the civilized world has to keep its antenna up and perhaps some data, some tendencies, some observable thru line will present itself but until then, what could it be?

...in unrelated news, it seems the bomber came from a nice Muslim family and his mom taught the Koran...

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A 22-year-old British man whose parents had emigrated from Libya was identified by the police on Tuesday as the bomber who carried out Britain’s deadliest terrorist attack since 2005

“They were nice people if you walked past.” She said the family occasionally displayed a Libyan flag outside the home.

Another neighbor, Farzana Kosur, said that the mother, who taught the Quran, had been abroad for around two months.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/w...ande.html?_r=0
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  #157  
Old 23.05.2017, 22:48
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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If only there was some linkage between all these terror attacks...
Just in time for the 25th anniversary of the Falcone bombing.

Tom
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  #158  
Old 23.05.2017, 22:57
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

No amount of evidence will conivince leftists and liberals of the folly of defending Islam in the name of multiculturalism.
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  #159  
Old 23.05.2017, 23:03
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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Hard for us armchair Psychologists to figure out the whys and wherefores here.

Anecdotal evidence, I once had a colleague of this faith who was well educated and seemed to be well integrated. He would even come down to the pub with us on a Friday night and drink alcohol.

He had a long time relationship with a Christian Swiss girl; we were all stunned when he said to her one day "Sorry, I cannot see you anymore, my parents have found me a wife". Off he went and got married, go figure!
...which is also a good example of why I think most Europeans don't really understand the whole Middle Eastern Muslim culture, how ingrained it is is, and how different it is from European culture/values. And I don't think EU liberals quite understand the irony when they invite ME Muslims here en masse ("refugees welcome", open borders, etc.), because they are mostly ultra-conservative and against openness, tolerance, etc...
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Old 23.05.2017, 23:09
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Re: Explosion at Manchester Arena

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I doubt that half the guys who did the attacks in Belgium (or most of the Europeans who joined IS) have any clue about Islam. It's pretty simple: In the 80s would any young angry guy protesting society become a punk, in the 70s a hippie, in the 60s one of the various flavours of left winged extremists.... If you happen to be young today and you really want to piss off your neighbours... you grow yourself a beard and tell them that they'll go to hell if they don't live according to some bronze age myths. I don't know how we ended up like this, but it clearly works. There is some appeal to young men in their late teens and early 20s who have trouble finding their spot in society.
Er...no, it's not "trendy" to party like it's 632 AD...beards, bad haircuts and religious violence have been happening in Muslim lands for thousands of years. It needs to progress, like most other cultures and religions have...
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