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  #21  
Old 29.05.2017, 14:22
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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I don't know if you've been asleep these last couple of months but if you believe German and Poland have never been better chums you should maybe read the news more often.
Where did I say that?
You said <<Merkel's latest hobby horse is to spit bile over Poland.>>

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You're making some pretty wild leaps in how you interpret people's comments in this thread...
It's not his day. I'll wait until tomorrow, he'll go back to his substantiated self.
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  #22  
Old 29.05.2017, 14:26
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

Merkel...part of the backstabbing group targeting UK...
Which is trying to leave, as per the rules, and is being bullied shamelessly.

And now she complains about US...

Is she (and her European idiotic colleagues, including the french) entirely stupid, insane or dumb? Unless it's some strategy to create additional conflicts and resurrect economy through hate and wars?

And funny to say "Allies" referring to the UK... The alleged ally trying to leave UE and getting all kind of political horrors in return.
The US? Ally? More like savior in a not so distant period.

Show some respect idiot!
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  #23  
Old 29.05.2017, 17:27
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

I am confused,Is GB gonna declare war on Germany again ?http://www.englishforum.ch/images/smilies/cool.gif
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  #24  
Old 29.05.2017, 17:44
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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I am confused,Is GB gonna declare war on Germany again ?http://www.englishforum.ch/images/smilies/cool.gif
Maybe the other way around? Are they allowed to do that again yet?
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  #25  
Old 29.05.2017, 18:03
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Maybe the other way around? Are they allowed to do that again yet?
Now , I am even more confused https://www.englishforum.ch/images/s...nsarcastic.gif
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  #26  
Old 29.05.2017, 18:06
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

What confuses me time and time again is that you got through the trouble putting a link for every emoticon you use. As a forum legend.
And I fall for it every time
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  #27  
Old 29.05.2017, 18:42
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

I don't think there's much value in discussing the outcome of WW2, now.
Elvis has left the building on that one a very long time ago.


At its core, the claim of the Trump administration that Europe owes the US "a lot of money" has some merit, but it's also true that because international trade is done in US-dollars - of which the US can print almost as much as they like - at least a part of that debt is directly paid back by the rest of the world accepting USD as an international currency (though I've read a paper that says these claims are exaggerated).


But it's also true that the architects of today's Europe as an entity never really thought about militarily self-sustainability. Well, maybe they thought about it and quickly put the thought aside. Europe was always more of an idealistic concept and socio-economic questions than a military strategy - much less a coherent, aligned military strategy among all its members.

It's simply not prepared for an armed conflict or even a credible threat of force from the outside.

Putin drove home this point during the height of the Ukraine-crisis, when he half-jokingly remarked that he "could be in Prague" (or wherever) in a month).
You really have to give it to Putin that he was able to play everybody else like that, so that we are now in this world of chaos and uncertainty.

And in a way, Putin and Trump are playing a bit of double-dutch with Europe here: Putin is rattling the saber, Trump is threatening to withdraw military support and protection. The end-result could be that the US gets more money and that Putin gets more recognition (which helps both at their home-bases)

As I said a couple of months ago: Trump is all about making deals - but we may not be on the favorable end of these deals.
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Old 29.05.2017, 18:55
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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I don't think there's much value in discussing the outcome of WW2, now.
Elvis has left the building on that one a very long time ago.
Which is a legitimate point, but nevertheless a very German one.

He may have left the building but he is still loved and remembered by many...
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  #29  
Old 29.05.2017, 19:00
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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I don't think there's much value in discussing the outcome of WW2, now.
Elvis has left the building on that one a very long time ago.


At its core, the claim of the Trump administration that Europe owes the US "a lot of money" has some merit, but it's also true that because international trade is done in US-dollars - of which the US can print almost as much as they like - at least a part of that debt is directly paid back by the rest of the world accepting USD as an international currency (though I've read a paper that says these claims are exaggerated).


But it's also true that the architects of today's Europe as an entity never really thought about militarily self-sustainability. Well, maybe they thought about it and quickly put the thought aside. Europe was always more of an idealistic concept and socio-economic questions than a military strategy - much less a coherent, aligned military strategy among all its members.

It's simply not prepared for an armed conflict or even a credible threat of force from the outside.

Putin drove home this point during the height of the Ukraine-crisis, when he half-jokingly remarked that he "could be in Prague" (or wherever) in a month).
You really have to give it to Putin that he was able to play everybody else like that, so that we are now in this world of chaos and uncertainty.

And in a way, Putin and Trump are playing a bit of double-dutch with Europe here: Putin is rattling the saber, Trump is threatening to withdraw military support and protection. The end-result could be that the US gets more money and that Putin gets more recognition (which helps both at their home-bases)

As I said a couple of months ago: Trump is all about making deals - but we may not be on the favorable end of these deals.
Thankfully with Corbyn not yet in power, the UK still has a nuclear deterrence and so can reduce large parts of Russia into a nuclear bombsite if required.
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  #30  
Old 29.05.2017, 19:06
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Thankfully with Corbyn not yet in power, the UK and France ,still has a nuclear deterrence and so can reduce large parts of Russia into a nuclear bombsite if required.
ftfy
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  #31  
Old 29.05.2017, 19:07
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Turkey = good friend
I do not think she can say anything else...she has a time bomb at home and she knows it. This is all PR. Be good to Turkey to not have the 3mil guests make their way into Ger and to apease those already in Germany, I think. I do not think she is a genuine friend of Turkey, I think she is trying to appease a potentially big mess and hating on Trump or UK is part of the disingenuous rhetorics.
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  #32  
Old 29.05.2017, 20:44
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Well she didn't refer to the US and UK directly, she referred to them as "others". She'd also do well to remember that these "others" also had to save Europe from Germany. Not once but twice.
You seemed to have missed the point?
The point is Merkel is worried they will not do the saving thing next time around

Edit; think about the threats in May's Brexit letter about defence and security then look at Trump's NATO speech where he did not commit to defending NATO countries
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  #33  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:16
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

According to NATO's website, USA pay 22%, Germany 14% and Britain 9% so the USA feels they are paying too much.

Well yes they are, (we must not forget that much of NATO hardware is bought from the USA) but it is agreed that all members will in future pay at last 2% of their budget, by 2019 ?? (I cannot find confirmation for the date 2019)

From what I read in the press, Trump seems to think they should be paying the minimum 2% since a long way back, but in reality the 28 members have only recently admitted they need to get everyone to pay their fair share.

Merkel is a skilled politician, she grew up under communism and now leads the strongest party & country in Europe. She didn't get there by being nice to everyone. So we must assume her remarks are pointed at someone.
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  #34  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:20
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Merkel is a skilled politician, she grew up under communism and now leads the strongest party & country in Europe. She didn't get there by being nice to everyone. So we must assume her remarks are pointed at someone.
She got there by changing her mind a lot.

Maybe Trump thinks that he only needs to wait long enough and she will agree with him.

Maybe he is right.
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  #35  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:23
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Maybe the other way around? Are they allowed to do that again yet?
Well, first may has to go to Munich to get Merkel to sign a piece of paper.

And then Merkel has to invade Poland.

So we're only two steps away



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  #36  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:25
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

That 2% "goal" is really just really a memorandum of understanding.

It's the European softly-friendly wischi-waschi version of saying "We're trying really, really hard to be as close to this goal as possible. Honestly. Boy Scouts honor. If we happen to find the spare money."

To their credit, defense is really a bottomless pit that doesn't really advance society or the welfare of people (outside the defense-industry). It only advances the science of killing.
It's basically taking money out of the economy and burning it, for next to no return. Or even negative return, if you allow some of the weapons to be sold and they end up killing your own soldiers in some remote country...
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  #37  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:31
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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That 2% "goal" is really just really a memorandum of understanding.

It's the European softly-friendly wischi-waschi version of saying "We're trying really, really hard to be as close to this goal as possible. Honestly. Boy Scouts honor. If we happen to find the spare money."

To their credit, defense is really a bottomless pit that doesn't really advance society or the welfare of people (outside the defense-industry). It only advances the science of killing.
It's basically taking money out of the economy and burning it, for next to no return. Or even negative return, if you allow some of the weapons to be sold and they end up killing your own soldiers in some remote country...
Yeah but then you should say that. Nato's rules aren't set in stone. We could all agree to reduce our contributions across the board. That would be fair.

The thinking that we can cut our budget because the American contribution will keep us safe is ultimately about freeloading. Either that or somebody needs to bring up a credible argument why America needs to pay more.
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  #38  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:32
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Well, first may has to go to Munich to get Merkel to sign a piece of paper.

And then Merkel has to invade Poland.

So we're only two steps away



These days, the only thing we Germans would invade is maybe Greece (and take away some of the islands) or the Balearic or Canary islands.

Reichskanzlerin Merkel: "There's land in the East. You just need to go and grab it. Go to Poland and be a farmer"

Long-term unemployed: "Thanks but no thanks. I have a doctor's certificate, I can't do anything that stresses my back too much for longer than 15 minutes an hour and then a 2 hours break. Also, I've heard there's no German cable-TV, the internet speed is crap and mobile coverage is spotty at best. Not going there, even if you pay me"
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  #39  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:36
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Long-term unemployed: "Thanks but no thanks. I have a doctor's certificate, I can't do anything that stresses my back too much for longer than 15 minutes an hour and then a 2 hours break. Also, I've heard there's no German cable-TV, the internet speed is crap and mobile coverage is spotty at best. Not going there, even if you pay me"
Many Germans would diusgree. I was in the south of Poland a couple of months back and lots of evidence of Germans buying property. A crappy German pension is still a lot of money in the sticks in Poland.
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  #40  
Old 29.05.2017, 22:37
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Yeah but then you should say that. Nato's rules aren't set in stone. We could all agree to reduce our contributions across the board. That would be fair.

The thinking that we can cut our budget because the American contribution will keep us safe is ultimately about freeloading.
Of course.
Trump has a point there.

It has been a concern for a couple of years, from what I've read. But previous (US) administrations didn't really want to rock the boat too much in that department.

Clearly, the Trump administration has little inhibitions in this regard ;-)

Building a European army that is actually more than a show-off will be a tremendously difficult, expensive and controversial endeavor.
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