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  #61  
Old 30.05.2017, 14:24
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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You couldn't do that in Germany, at least not on a normal salary. So in effect what we have is people from Western Europe going there and throwing big money around. But if it puts people there to work and puts money into the economy, what's wrong about it?
That's how private health care works in general - people who can afford it get what they want. Many travel some place which is either cheaper, better quality or both than what they get back home... A lot of Swiss don't get their teeth done at Swiss dentists either.
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  #62  
Old 30.05.2017, 14:44
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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They are employed legally, so they pay social securities, retirement fund, healthcare etc. Each nurse has one week living there with them as part of the family and one week off when she goes home (as in the next village). The nurses both speak really good German. The old guy, who is pretty senile, probably doesn't even realize he's not in Germany any more.
The real problem here is deprofessionalization and lost opportunities costs, but it could have happened in Germany too if they worked there. Overall, probably it could have been worse than this.
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  #63  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:01
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

Snork.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...03804307275776
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  #64  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:04
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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what are you smoking? May went out of her way to emphasise that Britain wanted to maintain a strong role in EU defense.
Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt attacks Theresa May's 'threat' to weaken EU security commitments
'The security of our citizens is far too important to start a trade off' he says - after Prime Minister demands partnership on 'both economic and security matters'

Source
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  #65  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:06
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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and where do the Slovenian retirees go?
Ukraine? If they go anywhere!
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  #66  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:08
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Trump's logic is these countries owe a lot from past years.

Keeping this arbitrary 2% limit all countries owe billions.

In fact he handed Chancellor the bill when she visited him(handshake).

http://www.politico.eu/article/donal...o-bill-report/

Over $300B!!
So clearly demonstrating Trump did not understand the NATO financing model and simultaneously demonstrating to Merkel he is a fool

Edit;- if they owe any money then they owe it to themselves!
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Old 30.05.2017, 15:27
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt attacks Theresa May's 'threat' to weaken EU security commitments
'The security of our citizens is far too important to start a trade off' he says - after Prime Minister demands partnership on 'both economic and security matters'

Source
I love Mr. Verhofstadt!

He is always spirited and bold!
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  #68  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:36
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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What confuses me time and time again is that you got through the trouble putting a link for every emoticon you use. As a forum legend.
And I fall for it every time
There is something wrong with my "Emoticon ,Smilies " display . I think I have been "Hacked", I suspect some "Eastey ".Music Chick or Greenmount
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  #69  
Old 30.05.2017, 15:49
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

If there is going to be an EU army, then Germany will have to pay for it.
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Old 30.05.2017, 16:05
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

Not that i agree with everything this article says, but some talking points ...

http://bazonline.ch/ausland/europa/d...story/20414327
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  #71  
Old 30.05.2017, 16:14
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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If there is going to be an EU army, then Germany will have to pay for it.
yes, and then they may realize it would have been cheaper to stick with Trump's nato.
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  #72  
Old 30.05.2017, 16:15
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

He wrote "We have a MASSIVE trade deficit with Germany" clearly demonstrating that he and his team still have not got it into their thick heads that the EU negotiates trade agreements as a bloc; not as individual countries.....
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  #73  
Old 30.05.2017, 16:30
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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He wrote "We have a MASSIVE trade deficit with Germany" clearly demonstrating that he and his team still have not got it into their thick heads that the EU negotiates trade agreements as a bloc; not as individual countries.....
Or they're taking the p!ss.. seeing EU as Germany, Germany as the EU.
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  #74  
Old 30.05.2017, 16:31
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Not that i agree with everything this article says, but some talking points ...

http://bazonline.ch/ausland/europa/d...story/20414327
I thought this article was complete rubbish!
It claims that NATO countries spending an extra $119B on defense would have prevented the Manchester attack. How an outward looking organisation like NATO would have spotted and prevented an English born getting up one morning, making and detonating a bomb is simply fantasy.
Of course the article does not clarify how NATO would do this.
Edit; I am sure their long range radar and and anti missile missiles would come in very handy.

The article also says "Trump is right when he blames West's failed immigration policy for Manchester." How today's immigration policy has any connection to someone who was born in UK over 20 years ago is not explained in the article.
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  #75  
Old 30.05.2017, 16:49
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Not that i agree with everything this article says, but some talking points ...

http://bazonline.ch/ausland/europa/d...story/20414327
The short version:
Dump Merkel, increase the army budgets, and everything will be fine.
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  #76  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:03
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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yes, and then they may realize it would have been cheaper to stick with Trump's nato.
Ignorance is bliss!

The costs would not be in addition to NATO commitments it would be instead of and actually a study by McKinsey shows it would cost less!!!!!
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  #77  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:05
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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If there is going to be an EU army, then Germany will have to pay for it.
Article 42 commits the member states to a common defence policy and now that the UK is not longer around to object, it is very much on the cards.
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  #78  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:42
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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I met a German family living in Hungary. Their aged dad lives at home because they didn't want to leave him behind in Germany and thought a Hungarian nursing home wasn't good enough. They pay two fully qualified nurses to look after him around the clock. They are employed legally, so they pay social securities, retirement fund, healthcare etc. Each nurse has one week living there with them as part of the family and one week off when she goes home (as in the next village). The nurses both speak really good German. The old guy, who is pretty senile, probably doesn't even realize he's not in Germany any more.

You couldn't do that in Germany, at least not on a normal salary. So in effect what we have is people from Western Europe going there and throwing big money around. But if it puts people there to work and puts money into the economy, what's wrong about it?
Nothing, feeds my peeps

I was just answering the questions about local retirees and local health issues related to aging, it is a cultural issue. While people kinda brag about being able to afford a good nursing home here, the local EE culture has it as a pejorative phrase, even. "Be good to me or else I put you in a nursing home when I grow up"
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  #79  
Old 30.05.2017, 17:51
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Agree.

The question though is, if NATO does break apart (and I know this is a big if, as I don't believe it will, methinks Merkel is just rattling her sabre but won't follow up) then what will Germany do for defence? If there is going to be a European army, Germany is going to have to take a visible and leading role in it. Can Germany do that? Will the German public accept and support that? What especially will the German left do? And if they oppose it, what is the alternative? There might be interesting discussions ahead.

But talking about rattling one's sabre, I think one needs to be very careful.

Back in the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher rattled her sabre over Euroscepticism. I don't think she believed it would ever happen but she used it to scare her European partners into agreeing to her terms. Yet the storm that she unleashed took on a life of its own and now look where it's got us.

Merkel needs to be careful that the Natoscepticism that she is conjuring out of the bottle won't in 30 years time come back to bite Germany very hard.
Trump has either forgotten or never knew the US secret agenda for NATO.

NATO is not about being nice to the Europeans or about defending Europe. NATO is all about confining any future US/Russia conventional war to be fought in Europe thus avoiding any risk of collateral damage to US property/assets, civilians and infrastructure.
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Old 30.05.2017, 17:52
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Re: Frau Merkel: Europe 'can no longer rely on allies' after Trump and Brexit!

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Ignorance is bliss!

The costs would not be in addition to NATO commitments it would be instead of and actually a study by McKinsey shows it would cost less!!!!!
Well, that's one of those studies that was probably written on a toilet break. There is a reason why the EU countries have so many systems and suppliers...

1. The European armies have different generations of equipment still in use. So there are probably more models of even US made planes still in use than in the US air force...

2. The EU consists of old Nato as well as ex-warsaw packt countries. Obviously do they still have stuff around from that time...

3. All countries buy their locally produced stuff. You could argue that this is a valid military strategy, but let's be honest - it's politics. If you spend 1 or 2% of the GDP do you want to spend it on local jobs. That's not some EU thing either: When the USA wanted to buy a new MBT did the Leopard beat the US competition by a mile... so they kept on changing the criterias the tank would be judged on till they finally managed to work out how to get the Abrams to the top of their test sheets...

There has already been a lot of common projects in the EU, from the Eurofighter over the Airbus A400M to whatever the French-German Leopard 3 will be called... but comparing the EU members to the US army without the political will to form one unified European military is a bit silly.
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