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View Poll Results: My view on the election is:
Vote CON; Expect CON; Wish for CON 13 36.11%
Vote CON; Expect CON; Wish for LAB 1 2.78%
Vote CON; Expect LAB; Wish for CON 0 0%
Vote CON; Expect LAB; Wish for LAB 0 0%
Vote LAB; Expect LAB; Wish for LAB 2 5.56%
Vote LAB; Expect LAB; Wish for CON 0 0%
Vote LAB; Expect CON; Wish for LAB 17 47.22%
Vote LAB; Expect CON; Wish for CON 3 8.33%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:19
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Then Castro's lad, Barry Gardiner, losing his rag with Piers Morgan on Good Morning Britain. He was seething. He couldn't and wouldn't say it, but I suspect he recognised the open goal May presented on Sunday morning, only for Corbyn to his the cross bar, not once, but twice in the hours that followed.
Just watched it, brilliant!



He's passionate about his job and just hasn't got time for piers moron, tabloids, Yaboo politics etc..
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  #142  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:26
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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I agree JagWaugh, it works very well - for the Swiss. How well it would work for any other country is another question. If it was adopted I can see a deluge of (mostly spurious/irrelevant) initiatives to be voted on plus problems in how to actually persuade the various parties to share things out amongst themselves. In the UK coalitions sort of work because they have to, not because they want to. Changing that mindset would take a awful lot of work.

I still find it odd that any Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK at the time of an election can vote.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...neral-election

I doubt any British nationals resident in those countries are allowed to vote in their general elections so why do we allow it in ours.
There really aren't that many spurious/irrelevant initiatives that make it to the vote here - it's a question of setting the conditions at a level which filter that backscatter out.
Part of the problem is precisely that political parties seem to have lost the ability share power (particularly in the US). When the incoming party spends the first year in power undoing the "damage" that their predecessors did to make space for their own goodness they're still only working at 75% efficiency (maximum, theoretical, until the next election).

The mindset needs to change. The problem isn't that Party A is entirely good, and Party B is entirely bad, but rather that both parties spend most of their energy focused on the other party and how best to pull a fast one come the next election. Brexit, and yesterday's Mayexit are two recent examples where a "clear mandate" was sought (i.e. free hand to do as they please without a coalition or needing to listen to opposition).

Jokes about being a colonial aside, I find it odd that I could vote in the UK if I happened to live there. I can see a certain logic to allowing foreign residents to vote at a municipal level, but not at the national level.
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  #143  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:28
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Number crunching

After the farce of this election and the fact that we could be facing another election within the next 12 months the time has come once again to demand Proportional Representation.
Just look at the final count.

Conservatives: 13,650,900 = 318 seats

Labour: 12,858,652 = 261 seats
Yes but PR also produces funny results, just google some of the Irish election results.

The other thing is you have to be very clued in to make your vote really count under the PR system. It is not just voting down the line in order of your preference, because the parties play strategy games on it. It Ireland the parties usually give out two documents on the door step - their policy and how you should actually vote in order for them to maximise the number of seats they end up with. It often depends on more in make sure that they get the order of elimination correct rather than anything else! Can't see it working in the UK, based on recent trends.
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  #144  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:31
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Indeed. They got in because of a hung parliament, which is very rare in British politics under the FPP system.

I think that proves my point beautifully. Thank you.

(By the way, your link is inaccessible, so I have no idea what it says. Could you provide a summary, please?)
It ia a table comparing the views often allocated to 'Muslims' and those of the UDP - carbon copies.

As for proportional representation - you couldn't be more wrong in this case especially. The % of the vote for the UDP in relation to the UK as a whole is minuscule - and yet they now have been given massive, totally disproportionate massive power by May - and will be the tale that could wag the dog- let alone wreck the Good Friday agreement and result in a hard border which is very dangerous indeed.
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  #145  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:32
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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There really aren't that many spurious/irrelevant initiatives that make it to the vote here - it's a question of setting the conditions at a level which filter that backscatter out.
Part of the problem is precisely that political parties seem to have lost the ability share power (particularly in the US). When the incoming party spends the first year in power undoing the "damage" that their predecessors did to make space for their own goodness they're still only working at 75% efficiency (maximum, theoretical, until the next election).

The mindset needs to change. The problem isn't that Party A is entirely good, and Party B is entirely bad, but rather that both parties spend most of their energy focused on the other party and how best to pull a fast one come the next election. Brexit, and yesterday's Mayexit are two recent examples where a "clear mandate" was sought (i.e. free hand to do as they please without a coalition or needing to listen to opposition).

Jokes about being a colonial aside, I find it odd that I could vote in the UK if I happened to live there. I can see a certain logic to allowing foreign residents to vote at a municipal level, but not at the national level.
I believe EU nationals resident in the UK can vote on many other things there, though not in a general election or Brexit. Whereas here in Switzerland only some of the cantons allow B/C permit holders to vote in communal elections. In the rest they have no say whatever at any level of Swiss government.
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  #146  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:37
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Ah yes... "It wasn't invented here". Did they also say "There's a war on, don't you know."?
No because they're not little Englanders. Just looked back, and although we're from the same home town, in that conversation were people who now live in Spain, Chile, China, Germany and Japan.

The point I was making is that Swiss system is utopian to many people.
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  #147  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:47
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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It ia a table comparing the views often allocated to 'Muslims' and those of the UDP - carbon copies.
I've seen it elsewhere. I notice it provides no sources for either side of the the table.

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As for proportional representation - you couldn't be more wrong in this case especially. The % of the vote for the UDP in relation to the UK as a whole is minuscule - and yet they now have been given massive, totally disproportionate massive power by May - and will be the tale that could wag the dog- let alone wreck the Good Friday agreement and result in a hard border which is very dangerous indeed.
They would have had no power whatsoever if that silly banker hadn't stuck her bloody oar in and encouraged people to vote "tactically".

Talk about the law of unintended consequences!
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  #148  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:49
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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No because they're not little Englanders. Just looked back, and although we're from the same home town, in that conversation were people who now live in Spain, Chile, China, Germany and Japan.

The point I was making is that Swiss system is utopian to many people.
Fair enough... But it does work, with very little hullabaloo, and (as far as I know) no failed governments in the sense of failing a vote of confidence. Rejecting anything that you don't understand because you can't imagine it isn't a particularly forward looking mindset.
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  #149  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:50
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

Some positive news. 45 members openly gay members of Parliament elected last night. 7% of all MPs.

Oh, and Ruth Davidson is now 2nd favourite to replace Theresa May as Tory leader.

Proper progress.
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  #150  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:51
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

Democracy- no? I thought you like democracy ...

tactical voting is highly democratic- going into coalition and agreeing therefore to being led by a tiny group of reactionary creationist bigots and 'terrorists' isn't. Night.
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  #151  
Old 09.06.2017, 23:53
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Democracy- no? I thought you like democracy ...

tactical voting is highly democratic- going into coalition and agreeing therefore to being led by a tiny group of reactionary creationist bigots and 'terrorists' isn't. Night.
Right, so coalitions are great, except when they're not?

I've got you. Makes perfect sense.

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  #152  
Old 10.06.2017, 00:00
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Oh, and Ruth Davidson is now 2nd favourite to replace Theresa May as Tory leader
Clearly impossible given that she's a member of the 'Scottish Parliament', not the House of Commons.
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  #153  
Old 10.06.2017, 00:17
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

Kensington are now Labour for the first time. The Tory incumbent lost around 7000 votes to Labour.
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  #154  
Old 10.06.2017, 00:29
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Kensington are now Labour for the first time. The Tory incumbent lost around 7000 votes to Labour.
She must have been living in la la land to be such a prominent Leave campaigner given her constituency of Kensington voted 69% to remain. If you go against the natural order, it will come back and bite you.
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  #155  
Old 10.06.2017, 01:19
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Clearly impossible given that she's a member of the 'Scottish Parliament', not the House of Commons.
Is it possible she could be appointed to the Lords and follow Marquess of Salisbury??? just askin
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  #156  
Old 10.06.2017, 01:46
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

Can I just ask?
Jeremy Corbyn: is he really unelectable?
Ha ha ha!

Ha ha ha!

LBC radio this morning: If this was another leader-he would of won! Pathetic!
We have a saying back home (I will translate this although might not make sence translated in English)

"If grandma had a penis - we would have called her grandpa"

No ifs, or but's

P.S. Remove the polls option on the forum, Apparently they are not accurate. If you don't believe me, ask Theressa May
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  #157  
Old 10.06.2017, 15:07
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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LBC radio this morning: If this was another leader-he would of won!
This wouldn't happen to be Swiss radio or some other programme in another language, would it?

Seriously though, I think Jeremy Corbyn has been greatly underestimated. To answer LBC's assertion, I think it's very possible that if Labour had another leader than Corbyn this election would have gone the way Theresa May had hoped and the establishment media predicted.
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  #158  
Old 12.06.2017, 14:31
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

One could extend that by saying that if the PLP had rallied behind him from day 1, and not spent the better part of 2 years insulting and undermining him and challenging him, they would have won the PMship too.




To say another leader would have won is pointless whataboutery. theres just as great a chance that another leader would have performed even worse.
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  #159  
Old 12.06.2017, 14:39
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Why? ... would open the door to some very dodgy parties ...
Which is a dodgy notion itself.
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they'd be in government having won as little as 26% of the popular vote
I think the UK differes from the US electoral college where electors are allocated proportionately to a state's populaton size.

In the UK, I think it takes way less, theoretically. Say you win the majority of the seats by winning in constituencies of 50k on average, lose all others that happen to be made of 400k on average. In such a case a rather small share of the population would determine the majority in the parliament.
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  #160  
Old 12.06.2017, 14:48
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Re: UK Election 2017 - Results Thread

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Number crunching

After the farce of this election and the fact that we could be facing another election within the next 12 months the time has come once again to demand Proportional Representation.
Just look at the final count.

Conservatives: 13,650,900 = 318 seats

Labour: 12,858,652 = 261 seats
Do you understand how PR would work?
There were 32.2m votes cast in the last election - with 650 seats available. A seat worth around 49,500 votes.

Based on that rate the results would have seen the Conservatives drop 42 to 274, Labour down 2 to 260, SNP down 15 to 20.

The big winners would have been Lib Dems (up 36 to 48), Greens (up 10 to 11) and UKIP - 12 MPs.

A world where coalitions would become the norm.
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