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Old 18.06.2017, 12:23
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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It was probably music.
It was photography. It was Robert Capa, Ansel Adams, etc...
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  #302  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:29
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Read Tolkien LOTR numerous times as a teenager.. but then I do live in Hobbiton and put funny stuff in my pipe.

Yes absolutely, stretch young minds with a range of texts/books, but also allow them plenty elbow room to have an insight into writers' thinking/ideas to develop keen critical awareness.

The lack of objectivity kills me in arguments.. heavy bias just doesn't work. There are bigots over to the right as well as the left.. and stubborn thinkers, seduced by their own thinking, towards the centre - stubborn, no matter how charming, eloquent and beautifully spoken they are. There's a ridiculous tendency in politics to rubbish the party and the good they've done when a new government is elected; all gets thrown out and we start the whole costly, expensive shebang all over again. The aggressive pendulum won't work forever.

Sometimes I just don't get why the right hate the left and vice versa, surely all thinkers are needed/voices heard for balance and future progress.

Yeah, yeah, I know.. go back to my pipe
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  #303  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I think due to bias from the media and educational institutions most apolitical people are generally left wing - until they wake up and smell the coffee.
Nah. I've been smelling the coffee for a long long time. Also only recently have become non apolitical. But I've seen it happen both ways. And of course, right/left distinctions aren't always meaningful.

People do bang on about objectivity, but I'm very cynical about one's ability to be objective. And it's ok....just admit that everyone has a bit of bias about them. The best you can do is to give people tools to question and evaluate, to sniff out bullshit. And try to understand our cognitive biases, satisficing, and all the rest.
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  #304  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:42
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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They perished in front of people's eyes and no-one has talked much about any psychological assistance for the survivors, as you say, they were just used as press bait for the most part.
There's a damned if you do and damned if you don't aspect to the media presence now. Who's going to be the first editor brave enough to take it off the front pages? Will there be a backlash to that from the people affected? It's a fine line...

As for consumption of the 24/7 coverage, it's really up to the individual to take control of how much they let themself dwell upon this.

The psychological assistance has already begun from trained Red Cross counsellors, and I saw a cracking interview yesterday with the Archbishop of Westminster about the ongoing pastoral care from all the faiths within the community. The Archbishop was our assistant parish priest, my school pastor and my brother's rugby coach back in the 70's when he was just Father Vince. I'm an atheist now, but have immense respect for 'Father Vince'. He'll make damned sure the people get all the counselling they need.
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  #305  
Old 18.06.2017, 13:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I think due to bias from the media and educational institutions most apolitical people are generally left wing - until they wake up and smell the coffee.
It's baked into the idea that education is a public good and a human right and therefore should be provided by the government. Hence teachers teach kids that public funding is wonderful and efficient - as naturally the teachers personal economic interest is aligned with that view.

You can see just how absurd this is in India and Mexico (extreme examples) when something like 25% of teachers don't show up because they are protected by the power of their union lobby - private schools - vastly cheaper than their public counterparts have started to provide cheaper better services.
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  #306  
Old 18.06.2017, 13:20
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I think due to bias from the media and educational institutions most apolitical people are generally left wing - until they wake up and smell the coffee.
Fair trade?

Or one that they can actually afford and buy regularly?

Objectivity is a good, powerful myth. Just as is annonymous opinion sharing, all for "common good". Anyone who starts using the term "common decency", "public interest", "common good", etc. probably gets a heavy dose of eyeroll these days...it is a good thing. By the time all parties semantically agree on terminology and definitions, the problem is long dead. Together with casualties. It is a pretty cost efficient, I mean "humane" way to deal with problems, n'est pas?

Objectivity my butt. Everybody is just seeking the fastest ways to saturate our dopamine deficits. Some parties will talk about it more openly than lofty day dreamers.. There is no point in nagging about low quality media, sneaky polititians or people's lives void of books and info or ways to filter it. All these services just give what customers want.
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  #307  
Old 18.06.2017, 13:34
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I read 'The Hobbit' at 11 and 'Lord of the Rings' at 13. I'd never heard of Ayn Rand until a few months ago on this forum. Honestly.
Ask your OH about Ayn Rand - in S.A. it's hugely praised!

Have to admit I enjoyed her works when in my 20's - it helped me set my own benchmark.
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  #308  
Old 18.06.2017, 15:30
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I suspect that the only two books that I've never heard described as a threat to young minds, or society, would have to be Machinery's Handbook, and the CRC manual.

Which is really odd, as between the two they've everything you need to know to make a bomb. (Just believe me... I'll take the 5th amendment on explaining how I know this.)




The Catcher in the Rye was considered "dangerous" in some circles. I never really understood that one - unless the "danger" was that adolescents were suddenly seen as people too (and that grief and guilt can have unforeseen repercussions). Love that book.


BA - you need to try at least one more fiction writer - Ernest Cline. His "Ready Player One" is awesome. It's so awesome that I've had to ask my OH to hide it until I've finished marking because I wasn't doing any, so engrossed was I! If you have any affinity at all for 80s pop culture, it's a riot.
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  #309  
Old 18.06.2017, 15:45
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Do you know what, I really don't care about any of this talk.

As far as I'm concerned, such an incident should never have occurred within a first world society.

The U.K. really needs to question itself on whether it's rapidly going down the plug-hole.

So, said and done, as someone looking at it from the rest of the World perspective.
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  #310  
Old 18.06.2017, 15:59
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Phillip Hammond has just got in on the act on the BBC news website. Hat. Ring. Throw. Anyone?




Zuri - the UK is not going down the plughole. It makes me really sad (and not a little angry) at these kinds of comments. It is still a fabulous place to live. But then I don't live in a city high rise and I count myself very fortunate, every day.


You're right, of course, that this "should" never have happened. But it did. And somehow everyone has to move forward whilst firmly remembering what happened before so that it is never repeated.
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  #311  
Old 18.06.2017, 16:11
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The U.K. really needs to question itself on whether it's rapidly going down the plug-hole.
I don't agree.

When I left working in travel, it felt like there'd been one plane crash or major travel incident after another, after another, after another... I saw someone I respect take early retirement from the industry because he was exhausted by dealing with seemingly endless crisis management, 11 clients on one flight...27 on another... It grinds you down and you need to know when to step away for a while, for the sake of your own sanity.

2015-16 it was France, Belgium and Germany that got hit time after time after time.

John Simpson summed up how I feel with this...

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John Simpson‏Verified account @JohnSimpsonNews

It's a year since Jo Cox was murdered: the worst year for Britain in my lifetime. We badly need a return to Jo's concept of moderation now.
https://twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/...05036193140737
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  #312  
Old 18.06.2017, 16:16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

The UK is too dependent on charities that have largely taken over many of the services previously provided by councils. As care services keep disappearing, this tragedy really laid bare the lack of knowledge and experienced personnel who knew what to do and how to do it.
Excluding those officials who have their heads stuck in the sand of course - just waiting to be fired, I guess.

Anyone read “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis yet?
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  #313  
Old 18.06.2017, 16:21
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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You're right, of course, that this "should" never have happened. But it did. And somehow everyone has to move forward whilst firmly remembering what happened before so that it is never repeated.
Did you see Portillo on 'This Week'? I rarely agree with him, but he was bang on the money with everything he said last Thursday...on a number of subjects.

This is a major watershed moment. It's up there with Hillsborough, Heysel, Kings Cross, Moorgate, etc... There must be a complete shakedown of housing and planning, with new legislation put into place, not just layered on top of the old stuff and creating loopholes.

If they still have money left for Trident after paying for all that, then fair enough. Or they could put it on Go Fund Me or Just Giving like the cancer research facilities at The Christie have to do. What do you reckon that would raise for Trident?
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  #314  
Old 18.06.2017, 16:23
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Anyone read “Adults in the Room” by Yanis Varoufakis yet?
No, but I've got his 'And The Weak Suffer What They Must' beside me. Is it good?
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:33
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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No, but I've got his 'And The Weak Suffer What They Must' beside me. Is it good?
Not read it yet. Saw it in hardback in Waterstones yesterday for £20.. will order the cheaper version from Amazon later this week.
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:33
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Did you see Portillo on 'This Week'? I rarely agree with him, but he was bang on the money with everything he said last Thursday...on a number of subjects.

This is a major watershed moment. It's up there with Hillsborough, Heysel, Kings Cross, Moorgate, etc... There must be a complete shakedown of housing and planning, with new legislation put into place, not just layered on top of the old stuff and creating loopholes.

If they still have money left for Trident after paying for all that, then fair enough. Or they could put it on Go Fund Me or Just Giving like the cancer research facilities at The Christie have to do. What do you reckon that would raise for Trident?


I didn't, no - what did he say? The thing with Portillo, as annoying as it is, he often makes a lot of sense.


I reckon Trident would raise around £1.37 and a stick of gum.
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:35
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Argh - edit not working.


For the love of the gods, stop naming books - I'm compelled to look them up and then, in all likelihood, purchase and read them and my shelves are groaning...
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:55
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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...
This is a major watershed moment. It's up there with Hillsborough, Heysel, Kings Cross, Moorgate, etc... There must be a complete shakedown of housing and planning, with new legislation put into place, not just layered on top of the old stuff and creating loopholes.
...
I think it's more than just housing, planning, and legislation and loopholes that need addressing. It's the "I'm alright Jack" stuff that lies at the root of the problem.
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Old 18.06.2017, 16:57
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I think it's more than just housing, planning, and legislation and loopholes that need addressing. It's the "I'm alright Jack" stuff that lies at the root of the problem.


This.
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Old 18.06.2017, 17:24
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I think it's more than just housing, planning, and legislation and loopholes that need addressing. It's the "I'm alright Jack" stuff that lies at the root of the problem.
It's also that snail's pace of change and implementation that needs to be addressed too. The fact that England is behind Scotland and Wales in addressing the need for change, blows my mind.

https://www.labc.co.uk/guidance/spot...echnical-guide

http://www.parliament.scot/S2_Bills/...-introd-pm.pdf
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