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Old 18.06.2017, 22:02
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

No, he isn't. If someone wants to offer their property temporarily then yes, but to commandeer someone's property whether they want to or not is wrong. It wasn't done in WWII when tens of thousands were made homeless so why should it be done for a few hundred now?

We've become too much a "I want it now" society and some things just can't be had now.
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  #342  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:08
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40303142
BBC "Reality Check: Can the government requisition homes?" sets out processes that were used during WWII and what would not work now or would need to be changed in order to work now.
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  #343  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:10
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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We've become too much a "I want it now" society and some things just can't be had now.
If I were suddenly made homeless, and most especially after such a tragedy, then yes, I would want shelter and a safe home, now.
And I would question those structures of society which make it true that such a thing just can't be had now.
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  #344  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:10
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Theft of property by the state is still theft.
Fine, then ramp up the taxes on vacant properties and generally make it uneconomical to land bank in a city with such a chronic housing crisis.
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  #345  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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No, he isn't. If someone wants to offer their property temporarily then yes, but to commandeer someone's property whether they want to or not is wrong. It wasn't done in WWII when tens of thousands were made homeless so why should it be done for a few hundred now?

We've become too much a "I want it now" society and some things just can't be had now.
There was requisition of property in WWII. Whilst current legislation does not allow for this, he was pointing out how wrong the situation is while so many people are in desperate circumstances. Hopefully, it will spur some of the landlords to help out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303142
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  #346  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I saw some local residents on TV suggesting that the final death toll will be 160. I'm sure that the authorities should be able to give a figure close to the final one
The police figure announced yesterday was 58. I believe this was the people known to have died + the ones still unidentified and/or believed missing. I may have misheard but the BBC report I believe said that they had now been into every apartment, so I'm hoping there will be no horrendous discovery of people that no one knew about.
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  #347  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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If I were suddenly made homeless, and most especially after such a tragedy, then yes, I would want shelter and a safe home, now.
And I would question those structures of society which make it true that such a thing just can't be had now.
Shelter yes, and they've been given that as far as I know. A safe home will take longer. Because first you have to define "safe". But even a new home will take a while.
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  #348  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:25
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The police figure announced yesterday was 58. I believe this was the people known to have died + the ones still unidentified and/or believed missing. I may have misheard but the BBC report I believe said that they had now been into every apartment, so I'm hoping there will be no horrendous discovery of people that no one knew about.
The Fire Brigade have been into every apartment but have not searched them thoroughly. Some are in a very unstable condition with large amounts of debris. It could take many weeks to search the entire block thoroughly.

Sadly, it is also a fact that some of the bodies will have been totally consumed by the fire
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  #349  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:32
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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It wasn't done in WWII when tens of thousands were made homeless so why should it be done for a few hundred now?


Yes, it was. Stately homes were requisitioned for the army, for hospitals, for schools.... The owners were either moved out or allocated a couple of rooms, the rest was taken over. You might have heard of Bletchley Park...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-new-book.html
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  #350  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:39
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Fine, then ramp up the taxes on vacant properties and generally make it uneconomical to land bank in a city with such a chronic housing crisis.
You mean ttttttttax the absentee landlords?

No, that wouldn't do at all.

It would be grossly unfair to those who are actively contributing to the economy.

It would almost certainly cause a market failure. Probably immediately.

Most of them are already at the absolute economic limit, they've maintenance costs, safety inspections, agents fees.

No, that wouldn't do at all.
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  #351  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Fine, then ramp up the taxes on vacant properties and generally make it uneconomical to land bank in a city with such a chronic housing crisis.
No issue with that at all - in fact I'm entirely against rent seeking as it's a poor use of capital - however - I can't remember you or plenty of others pointing out "the housing crisis" when it came to Calais or the refugee crisis.
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  #352  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:43
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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If I were suddenly made homeless, and most especially after such a tragedy, then yes, I would want shelter and a safe home, now.
And I would question those structures of society which make it true that such a thing just can't be had now.
I want "a safe home" and have been working my nuts off for the guts of 20 years to be able to afford one - why can't I "just have one NOW" ??
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  #353  
Old 18.06.2017, 22:54
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I want "a safe home" and have been working my nuts off for the guts of 20 years to be able to afford one - why can't I "just have one NOW" ??
You probably mean something different by "safe home" compared to what the people who lived in Grenfell towers did. I'm only guessing, but I take it that you're thinking implicitly "Safe home which I own, which won't kill me, which I can guarantee with some kind of insurance policy", and that you evaluate the place to see if it's a death trap and walk away if it is.

They're probably thinking more along the lines of "Won't kill me or my family while I sleep, or increase in rent so I'll have to move even farther down market."

And if you're renting, here or in the UK, you've probably already made the break - your landlord probably wouldn't refuse to install fire extinguisher because that would bring the additional cost of having to pay to have them inspected every X years.
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  #354  
Old 18.06.2017, 23:16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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You probably mean something different by "safe home" compared to what the people who lived in Grenfell towers did. I'm only guessing, but I take it that you're thinking implicitly "Safe home which I own, which won't kill me, which I can guarantee with some kind of insurance policy", and that you evaluate the place to see if it's a death trap and walk away if it is.

They're probably thinking more along the lines of "Won't kill me or my family while I sleep, or increase in rent so I'll have to move even farther down market."

And if you're renting, here or in the UK, you've probably already made the break - your landlord probably wouldn't refuse to install fire extinguisher because that would bring the additional cost of having to pay to have them inspected every X years.
I've lived in a shithole deathtrap actually as a penniless student - next to a crackhouse no less... a fire extinguisher wouldn't have helped whereas a flamethrower just might have. Now I could have spent some of the cash I earned on my summer job and not had enough to get by or I could have taken the choice I did - live rent free and mind some old guy's place - this was a choice. There's an element of choice here for people - I can't say for every single resident of that tower block but I'm certain for some.
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  #355  
Old 18.06.2017, 23:24
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I've lived in a shithole deathtrap actually as a penniless student - next to a crackhouse no less... a fire extinguisher wouldn't have helped whereas a flamethrower just might have. Now I could have spent some of the cash I earned on my summer job and not had enough to get by or I could have taken the choice I did - live rent free and mind some old guy's place - this was a choice. There's an element of choice here for people - I can't say for every single resident of that tower block but I'm certain for some.
Without a doubt. I lived in a couple of scary places as a student too. It wasn't that much of a deathtrap... I only fell through a section of rotted floor once, but managed to stop myself falling into the room below by spreading my arms in time. Grand being a student, isn't it?

And I agree, not all of the residents of Grenfell will have been doing their utmost to escape their situation.

But they should have all been able to escape the fire.
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  #356  
Old 18.06.2017, 23:37
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Can't we just keep calm and carry on?
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  #357  
Old 18.06.2017, 23:56
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Can't we just keep calm and carry on?
I am sure that is what they all are hoping for- surely.
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  #358  
Old 19.06.2017, 01:59
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Yes, it was. Stately homes were requisitioned for the army, for hospitals, for schools.... The owners were either moved out or allocated a couple of rooms, the rest was taken over. You might have heard of Bletchley Park...
Sorry, but the article isn't correct. In fact, it's horrendously inaccurate. Bletchley Park was bought outright by the government from a property developer who'd planned to demolish it. It was also largely kept a secret until the mid 1970's. It most definitely wasn't famous as the article says. But there were places, such as my favourite UK hotel, Oakley Court at Windsor, that was 'allegedly' used as a base for French Intelligence.

http://www.bpsic.com/history-of-bletchley-park
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Old 19.06.2017, 02:33
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Fine, then ramp up the taxes on vacant properties and generally make it uneconomical to land bank in a city with such a chronic housing crisis.

The Brexit will take care of that, I'm pretty sure.

Just as the slower influx of foreigners has quite swiftly cooled down the Swiss real estate market.
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Old 19.06.2017, 02:54
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Sorry, but the article isn't correct. In fact, it's horrendously inaccurate. Bletchley Park was bought outright by the government from a property developer who'd planned to demolish it. It was also largely kept a secret until the mid 1970's. It most definitely wasn't famous as the article says. But there were places, such as my favourite UK hotel, Oakley Court at Windsor, that was 'allegedly' used as a base for French Intelligence.

http://www.bpsic.com/history-of-bletchley-park
May not have been Bletchley but plenty were including, I believe, Chatworth House, part of which became a school for quite some years. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure.

Hardwick Hall was a training ground.
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