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  #21  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:01
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

BBC reports six casualties

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625
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  #22  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:03
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Sadly, that figure will only climb once the building has been secured for access and a full search can proceed. Devastating.
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  #23  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Fairly shocked by this news report from our local news radio which strikes a strangely self satisfied note and inappropriate tone at a time when final casualty figures are not yet known and are likely to rise fairly steeply. "Impossible for a fire like London to happen here" says local fire chief.

https://www.rfj.ch/rfj/Actualite/Reg...chez-nous.html
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  #24  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

http://www.focus.de/immobilien/bauen...d_7244621.html


Similar reaction in a German magazine.
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  #25  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:34
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Fairly shocked by this news report from our local news radio which strikes a strangely self satisfied note and inappropriate tone at a time when final casualty figures are not yet known and are likely to rise fairly steeply. "Impossible for a fire like London to happen here" says local fire chief.

https://www.rfj.ch/rfj/Actualite/Reg...chez-nous.html
I was rather shocked when I opened my bar in Zurich a couple of years ago. It was in a brand new building (and the space had been designed as a bar) and I couldn't believe it had been designed and approved by many agencies here without a fire escape.

And when a couple of weeks before opening we had a combined inspection from the city building works, health, police and fire departments I asked the fire inspector how many extinguishers we should have and where they should be hung, his answer was "you don't have much flammable in here you don't need any".

I know the UK sometimes gets stick for extreme Health & Safety measures, but here it seems to be so far in the other direction to be almost cavalier.

Looking at the photos of the fire in London it seems pretty clear that the outside cladding has all burnt away which (as Big Blue says earlier) is incredible. Some years ago in the UK I was involved in refurbishing interiors for staff canteens at many of the big car plants and we had to have fire rating certificates for all materials used (including Dulux white emulsion paint!).

So devastatingly sad for the families and communities involved, I can see some major investigations and prosecutions (and hopefully changes) after this.
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  #26  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Ok, big calamity, I am sorry it happened, horrible thing, but without trying to get the attention away from the disaster, something is bothering me:

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There should be fire alarms and extinguishers available on every floor. If not, contact your landlord.
Contacting the landlord will lead to nothing. I can understand everyone gets their nerves on edge after a calamity, but the fire safety rules in Switzerland are abundant, and a extinguisher in every floor is not one of them.

If you check page 8, chapter 11 from the VKF AEAI Norms, there are 3 types of situation: obligation to have extinguishers, with a distance inferior to 40 m (for example in businesses over 1200m2); advised to have extinguishers (schools); no obligation nor advise (apartment buildings).

Same goes for fire alarms.

There are quite a lot of rules for fire safety, they can be really tricky and difficult to deal with, but this calamity is a calamity, it's something out of the ordinary. Could it happen in Switzerland? Sure. But we can't suddenly go into panic mode.
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  #27  
Old 14.06.2017, 14:44
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Ok, big calamity, I am sorry it happened, horrible thing, but without trying to get the attention away from the disaster, something is bothering me:



Contacting the landlord will lead to nothing. I can understand everyone gets their nerves on edge after a calamity, but the fire safety rules in Switzerland are abundant, and a extinguisher in every floor is not one of them.

If you check page 8, chapter 11 from the VKF AEAI Norms, there are 3 types of situation: obligation to have extinguishers, with a distance inferior to 40 m (for example in businesses over 1200m2); advised to have extinguishers (schools); no obligation nor advise (apartment buildings).

Same goes for fire alarms.

There are quite a lot of rules for fire safety, they can be really tricky and difficult to deal with, but this calamity is a calamity, it's something out of the ordinary. Could it happen in Switzerland? Sure. But we can't suddenly go into panic mode.
Yup, and *most* landlords here are on a completely different level to your average UK Housing Association, some of whom have some of the most unscrupulous business practices you're ever likely to come across.
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  #28  
Old 14.06.2017, 15:36
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Unconfirmed comment that a refridgerator exploded in one of the flats. Which is itself worrying.
Indeed, as there is nothing in a refrigerator that can explode.

(unless it was loaded with explosive material)

Tom
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  #29  
Old 14.06.2017, 15:46
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Yup, and *most* landlords here are on a completely different level to your average UK Housing Association, some of whom have some of the most unscrupulous business practices you're ever likely to come across.
Every cloud has a silvery troll lining, eh Loz?


Regarding an exploding fridge... don't they have compressed gas for the coolant system? Or have I gone mad?
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  #30  
Old 14.06.2017, 15:49
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Every cloud has a silvery troll lining, eh Loz?


Regarding an exploding fridge... don't they have compressed gas for the coolant system? Or have I gone mad?
they do but the gas isn't flammable
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  #31  
Old 14.06.2017, 15:52
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Every cloud has a silvery troll lining, eh Loz?


Regarding an exploding fridge... don't they have compressed gas for the coolant system? Or have I gone mad?
It's a Daily Fail article (sorry). Doesn't explain the fire, though, unless the sudden explosion and bits of fridge caused damage to, say, a gas pipe or something else flammable in the kitchen.
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  #32  
Old 14.06.2017, 15:56
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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they do but the gas isn't flammable
I thought all gas was flammable. What kind is It? On balance it's probably a good idea I mostly deal with books and kids and stuff...
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  #33  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:00
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I thought all gas was flammable. What kind is It? On balance it's probably a good idea I mostly deal with books and kids and stuff...
unless its a really really really old fridge then its probably HFC-134a which is inert upto something silly like 300c
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  #34  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:04
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Remember that in Switzerland it is legal to store live ammunition in your apartment. Now that is highly flammable!
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:05
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Every cloud has a silvery troll lining, eh Loz?


Regarding an exploding fridge... don't they have compressed gas for the coolant system? Or have I gone mad?
The Freon isn't as flammable as, say, propane, though it does produce some pretty nasty stuff if you do manage to get it to burn.

It is very rare to have a cooling system pressure vessel suffer catastrophic failure. When they lose gas, they tend to do it very slowly, unless you happen to stick an icepick through the LP side while defrosting... and even then, it generally takes about 10 minutes for all the gas to escape.

A motor burning out and setting fire to the wiring, styofoam insulation, and plastic interior is much more likely, but that would take a while to start a fire which would consume the whole apt... and even then, most building codes for such buildings as the one in question are designed to contain the fire within that apt for long enough that people call the fire dept, pull the alarm, and escape. Even if the fire dept takes forever to arrive, the fire should be contained to that floor - even if it isn't equipped with sprinklers.

Judging by the pictures, it looks like the fire climbed up the outside, and worked it's way back into the building on the way up (once the heat cracks the glazing then the curtains will catch, and so on). A fair number of things need to be done wrong for a fire to get that out of control that quickly. Cladding the outside of a high rise with the wrong Styrofoam would be one way to get things going.
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  #36  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Every cloud has a silvery troll lining, eh Loz?
Eh?
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  #37  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:08
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I thought all gas was flammable.
Umm, no.

Tom
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  #38  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:08
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Eh?


UK landlords VS Swiss ones.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:09
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

I am just waiting for the first one to scream "terrorist attack!"
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:10
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I am just waiting for the first one to scream "terrorist attack!"
that was already screamed out on the news at 6am
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