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  #381  
Old 20.06.2017, 08:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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This extract from House of Cards from 1993 is quite chilling. It almost seems to foretell the Grenfell Tower disaster precisely. It does show that the potential for such problems was real and ignored

https://vimeo.com/222034879
Holy ****...
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  #382  
Old 20.06.2017, 12:15
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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?? it was run by a private company and had just undergone 8m+ of renovations, so hardly austerity.

so the REAL issue is why have councils outsourced the running of their social housing to outside companies, why do they think these companies can deliver the same or better services for less money and they still make a profit??
That essentially the same, isn't it? Without the pressure to reduce costs, and without the dubious (often, outright false) assumption that private for-profit corporations invariably produce better results and/or for lower costs management wouldn't have been outsourced in the first place.
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  #383  
Old 20.06.2017, 23:37
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Someone saying they're a firefighter who attended the fire has posted a lengthy account on Facebook of what they say was their experience.

Distraught firefighter forced to make impossible choice in Grenfell Tower

Facebook post

Also: Video clip (from BBC Panorama): Moment firefighters first saw Grenfell Tower
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  #384  
Old 21.06.2017, 01:24
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Someone saying they're a firefighter who attended the fire has posted a lengthy account on Facebook of what they say was their experience.

Distraught firefighter forced to make impossible choice in Grenfell Tower

Facebook post
That was very moving.


And that doesn't play without Flash.
It's 2017 and the BBC still uses Flash.

Even SpiegelTV has switched to HTML5.
And Zattoo.
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  #385  
Old 21.06.2017, 13:52
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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And that doesn't play without Flash.
It's 2017 and the BBC still uses Flash.

Even SpiegelTV has switched to HTML5.
And Zattoo.
Here's that BBC video on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnRT15LN0o
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  #386  
Old 21.06.2017, 14:44
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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That essentially the same, isn't it? Without the pressure to reduce costs, and without the dubious (often, outright false) assumption that private for-profit corporations invariably produce better results and/or for lower costs management wouldn't have been outsourced in the first place.
This is not a foregone conclusion. A lot of givernment bodies also go for the lowest cost.

If a government body looks as if it is throwing money around, that doesn't go down too well either.
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  #387  
Old 21.06.2017, 17:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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This is not a foregone conclusion. A lot of givernment bodies also go for the lowest cost.
All the more reason to say it's essentially the same if you ask me. Especially going forward it's less about "who" but "why" and "what needs changing".
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If a government body looks as if it is throwing money around, that doesn't go down too well either.
Definitely, the question is where the limit is.

Saving £5k on a highrise by using highly inflammable materials that are banned elsewhere and resonably safe only if used correctly seems a prime candidate for "that's too much of a good thing". I have no doubt more disasters are waiting to happen in multiple other aspects - materials, procedures, what-have-you.

Now, unfortunately in some (many) cases experience is the only teacher. But with a material that's outright banned elsewhere that experience seems to have been gained already, in abundance, just not locally.
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  #388  
Old 21.06.2017, 17:45
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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If a government body looks as if it is throwing money around, that doesn't go down too well either.
The council I briefly worked for in the UK used to have to ensure its budget was used up by the end of the financial year (or the 5 / 10 year period, depending on which purse it was from) otherwise it would have the budget cut proportionally the year or period after.

There would be a mad scrambling to invest in road works or other ad hoc stuff from about February just to drain the budget.

The council was by no means prosperous so it's not like they were flashing the cash for nothing.
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  #389  
Old 21.06.2017, 18:04
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The council I briefly worked for in the UK used to have to ensure its budget was used up by the end of the financial year (or the 5 / 10 year period, depending on which purse it was from) otherwise it would have the budget cut proportionally the year or period after.

There would be a mad scrambling to invest in road works or other ad hoc stuff from about February just to drain the budget.

The council was by no means prosperous so it's not like they were flashing the cash for nothing.
This is the difference between going at it ad hoc and actually having a strategy.

Compare for example your average NHS hospital to a Swiss hospital. I'm not talking about the staff now or what they do, but just the buillding. All the Uk hospitals I've been inside just smell of tackiness compared to what you get here in CH. Cheap materials that wear down quickly. Notices everywhere dstributed randomly on walls rather than in neat rows on notice boards.

And I think some of this does have an effect. Being in a pleasant and structred environmant may actualy help you get better more quickly.

I don't this is really a question of money, but more of perspective. I guess in a Swiss hosiptal the management say, we've got this much money this year and this much next year and this much the year after so let's do some long term planning and look at what needs to be fixed and what needs to be replaced and take those steps as they come. In the Uk they say, cool, we just got some money, let's do something with it before it gets taken away.
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  #390  
Old 22.06.2017, 00:17
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Artists for Grenfell - Bridge Over Troubled Water (Official Video)

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  #391  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:36
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Ooops, flats were full of illegals. Perhaps Media wasn't so wrong afterall...

London Mayor Sadiq Khan Urges ‘Compassion’ On Grenfell Survivors’ Immigration Status
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  #392  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:40
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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flats were full of illegals

Where does it say that in the article?
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  #393  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:43
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Where does it say that in the article?
Not explicitly, just reading between the lines. That they're having to come out with such statements says it all.

Undocumented Grenfell Tower victims may never be identified
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  #394  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:48
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

I´m not a native speaker but for me there is a difference between an illegal and immigrants?
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  #395  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:53
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Not explicitly, just reading between the lines. That they're having to come out with such statements says it all.

Undocumented Grenfell Tower victims may never be identified
Oh, I'm sure it's entirely likely. It's a tower block in London. But all we have so far is supposition.


I still think Medea's posts earlier in the thread were appalling. Even illegal immigrants deserve compassion when they've been through something as dreadful as this. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that especially illegal immigrants deserve compassion, given what they've likely already gone through.
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  #396  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:54
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I´m not a native speaker but for me there is a difference between an illegal and immigrants?
"full" is a bit iffy too.
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  #397  
Old 22.06.2017, 10:57
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

In theory it should be possible to identify a reasonable percentage, though. Each flat had a contract signed off by somebody and that "somebody" would be able to shed light on who the flat had been sublet to. I guess if it was sub-sublet it becomes more difficult but presumably the subtenant was paying money to the official tenant.

The authority needs to also provide an amnesty on anyone who was providing a sublet if only to assist in the ID-ing of the poor souls who lost their life in there.
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  #398  
Old 22.06.2017, 11:04
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

well it seems a fair few of the flats where sublet so unless the real tenant comes forward and admits he broke the law then they have no real way of knowing who was in the flats, the fact the gov are handing over fists full of money and the promise of a nice new apartment in a luxury exclusive complex round the corner to tenants also cloud the issue.

Legal status of the victim shouldn't make a squat of difference, be they in a government owned tower block or prison they should still expect the outside of the building to be fireproof ffs
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Old 22.06.2017, 11:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Oh, I'm sure it's entirely likely. It's a tower block in London. But all we have so far is supposition.


I still think Medea's posts earlier in the thread were appalling. Even illegal immigrants deserve compassion when they've been through something as dreadful as this. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that especially illegal immigrants deserve compassion, given what they've likely already gone through.
Sure, compassion is one thing they definitely deserve, but how far should the government go? They face a very difficult task here. Do you give the survivors a new flat *just* because they survived a fire? A flat that someone who is entitled to be in the country may not have access to? Do you allow them to remain in the country indefinitely? What's to prevent copycat fires if the illegal immigrants get treated so well in the aftermath?
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Old 22.06.2017, 11:10
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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What's to prevent copycat fires if the illegal immigrants get treated so well in the aftermath?
Fireproof building-cladding?
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