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  #401  
Old 22.06.2017, 11:13
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Sure, compassion is one thing they definitely deserve, but how far should the government go? They face a very difficult task here. Do you give the survivors a new flat *just* because they survived a fire? A flat that someone who is entitled to be in the country may not have access to? Do you allow them to remain in the country indefinitely? What's to prevent copycat fires if the illegal immigrants get treated so well in the aftermath?
First you have not established there were any illegals in there.
Second if there were there's a decent chance they are now dead.
Third if they did survive they are not going to hang around to be caught no matter what apparent promises are made.

Please take your constant anti-immigrant agenda (which you do not apply to yourself anyway) to another thread.
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  #402  
Old 22.06.2017, 11:14
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Sure, compassion is one thing they definitely deserve, but how far should the government go? They face a very difficult task here. Do you give the survivors a new flat *just* because they survived a fire? A flat that someone who is entitled to be in the country may not have access to? Do you allow them to remain in the country indefinitely? What's to prevent copycat fires if the illegal immigrants get treated so well in the aftermath?
I don't think anyone is offering any illegals anything except maybe overlooking the fact they are illegal if they come forward.

which make no difference anyway as the UK doesn't detain and deport, they arrest, release on bail and the illegal disappears again.
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Old 22.06.2017, 11:42
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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In fact, I'd go so far as to say that especially illegal immigrants deserve compassion, given what they've likely already gone through.
I respectfully disagree - if you break the laws of a country - and in particular a secular democracy with a welfare state - then as a migrant - a guest in that country - you deserve no special treatment.
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  #404  
Old 22.06.2017, 12:02
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I respectfully disagree - if you break the laws of a country - and in particular a secular democracy with a welfare state - then as a migrant - a guest in that country - you deserve no special treatment.
that make no financial sense, so we have an apartment full of dead badly burnt bodies, no id, no papers, no one knows who they are (for arguments sake) so do you

a) carry out a huge investigation, DNA test, cross reference, spend a fortune trying to find out who they all are, tracking down relatives etc etc

or

b) ask that illegal (who isn't costing the country a penny as, well, he's illegal) if he wouldn't mind telling you who they are, and in return we won't arrest you.
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  #405  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:05
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

£5000, no questions asked.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/877812381140697089

But some are still not happy.

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  #406  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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First you have not established there were any illegals in there.
Let's have a bet. 1000 Chuffs.
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  #407  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:12
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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£5000, no questions asked.
£5000, for some people could be wiped out by the cost of a couple of funerals, though couldn't it? He's right, in a way. Obviously the reference to the loss of the TV, etc., isn't the point but he goes on to speak for others and what they've lost.

I imagine the ones who have lost family members have told the guy with the mic and the camera to piss off, and they've gone off in search of people who have lost less and are therefore in "less" shock.

It's all context and in these days of instant news, people are being judged on unfiltered unofficial chat which is then splattered all over YouTube for the media to make a dog's dinner over.

Cheap and easy journalism.
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  #408  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:13
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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b) ask that illegal (who isn't costing the country a penny as, well, he's illegal) if he wouldn't mind telling you who they are, and in return we won't arrest you.
If somebody is accomodating significantly more sublet tenants that the appartment is designed for, sleeping six to a bed or whatever, he does indeed share part of the blame for their deaths. He put his own finances before the safety of his tenants, same as the people who chose the wrong cladding in fact. Same selfish thinking.

I wouldn't be too magnanimous with people like that. You took a gamble. You assumed this wouldn't heppen. You lost. Now face the music.
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  #409  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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which make no difference anyway as the UK doesn't detain and deport, they arrest, release on bail and the illegal disappears again.
Yes they do, but they're at capacity. These two detention centres were across the road from the office I worked at in the UK...

https://detentionaction.org.uk/about...tention-centre

https://detentionaction.org.uk/about...tention-centre
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  #410  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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£5000, for some people could be wiped out by the cost of a couple of funerals, though couldn't it? He's right, in a way. Obviously the reference to the loss of the TV, etc., isn't the point but he goes on to speak for others and what they've lost.
We'd need to establish exactly what that sum is to be used for and what will be covered by further payments.

Once this mess is untangled, post inquiry and inquests, I hope that an excellent criminal law team prosecute on behalf of all the tenants and secure something more appropriate for them.

What I hate about this thread is the assumption that the residents were 1) illegal immigrants, 2) in receipt of benefits, 3) were not in legitimate paid employment.

What happened is a human tragedy. The response from some in this thread is a class issue. As I've said before, when I was a council tenant, I was working 60hrs a week. I'm not ashamed of having been a council tenant, and I worked damned hard to afford a place of my own, but when you live and work in Kensington, that's barely even a possibility.
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  #411  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:45
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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What I hate about this thread is the assumption that the residents were 1) illegal immigrants, 2) in receipt of benefits, 3) were not in legitimate paid employment.
applies to any resident. Then they're not entitled to this:

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what will be covered by further payments.
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  #412  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:48
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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applies to any resident. Then they're not entitled to this:
If this tragedy was caused by a criminal act, yes they are. On a human level, yes they are. On a charity level, yes they are.

Put yourself in their shoes for one moment. How would you cope?
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  #413  
Old 22.06.2017, 13:49
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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How would you cope?
I'd call up my house insurance and ask for a payout. Not the State.
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  #414  
Old 22.06.2017, 14:01
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I'd call up my house insurance and ask for a payout. Not the State.
So will get your photo albums, wedding dress, family heirlooms, child's 'art' work etc back with that?
That will stop you thinking about your friends, and maybe family, having died horribly in a preventable disaster?
It might seem like a lot, but 5k is not. Throwing (not a great deal of) money at someone who lost everything, and many people they know, is not enough.
Plus, if, as you think, these people are non workers on benefits or illegals then they were more likely well past the 'insurance or new clothes' stage of poverty and more likely in the 'heat or food' stage. I suspect that many are uninsured.
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  #415  
Old 22.06.2017, 14:03
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I'd call up my house insurance and ask for a payout. Not the State.
You can only take out contents insurance on a council property.

Now....say it takes your house insurance 3 weeks to make in interim payment? Say they believe a modification made to the property invalidated the insurance and refuse to pay out at all? Say they hold off making a payment until the results of an inquiry or criminal investigation?

I've had a house insurance claim rejected totally because it was the result of a police action. Off the top of your head, do you know the reasons your insurance could use to decline your claim? Do you have enough savings to cover your needs if your claim is declined? How long would it take you to access your savings if all your documentation was lost?
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  #416  
Old 23.06.2017, 14:41
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I've had a house insurance claim rejected totally because it was the result of a police action. Off the top of your head, do you know the reasons your insurance could use to decline your claim? Do you have enough savings to cover your needs if your claim is declined? How long would it take you to access your savings if all your documentation was lost?
There was a time when people were advised to have the equivalent of three months of income as untouchable reserve for emergencies.

I admit that I don't live by that rule myself, But I still think it's good practice.

Accessing it may be a problem, if you've lost all your cards and IDs. But you don't normally need an ID to get a replacement credit card. Just phone the credit card company and they send you one. Having an address to send it to may be a challenge though. PO box maybe?

Maybe the lesson here is, think through your emergency planning. What would you do? And maybe tune your system so that you could survive.

Of course its always easier to be smarter after the event. But still, it's good to think these things through. One day you may be grateful that you did.
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  #417  
Old 23.06.2017, 16:21
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40380584

Anyone who has a white Hotpoint fridge freezer model number FF175BP or graphite fridge freezer model number FF175BG should register their appliance with the manufacturer to receive any updates.
Generally, the model number is found on a bar code on a sticker behind the salad container in the fridge.
These models were discontinued in 2009, but 64,000 were sold between March 2006 and July 2009. It is not known how many are still in use.

https://www.hotpointservice.co.uk/fridgefreezer

This may be of interest to anyone in the UK, or indeed anyone here who retains a home in the UK, complete with Hotpoint fridge-freezer.

Last edited by koblenz; 23.06.2017 at 16:22. Reason: add
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  #418  
Old 23.06.2017, 17:05
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

It's not just Hotpoint fridges that are affected. It seems that fridges are the most common white goods that can go up in smoke.

http://www.ukfiretraining.com/news/f...zer-fires.html
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Old 23.06.2017, 17:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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It's not just Hotpoint fridges that are affected. It seems that fridges are the most common white goods that can go up in smoke.

http://www.ukfiretraining.com/news/f...zer-fires.html
Wonderful, so now we have a worrying fire risk in every home that owns at least a fridge.
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  #420  
Old 23.06.2017, 17:23
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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It's not just Hotpoint fridges that are affected. It seems that fridges are the most common white goods that can go up in smoke.

http://www.ukfiretraining.com/news/f...zer-fires.html
Great, so "Fridge" and "Cladding" will be the witch hunt focus words for 2017.
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