Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #521  
Old 06.07.2017, 14:46
Hausamsee's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lucerne
Posts: 686
Groaned at 105 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 922 Times in 403 Posts
Hausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
I guess primarily the recovery operation was a priority but, the other consideration would be the cost. Those tarps they stretch around buildings for renovation (or in this case to cover the horror) cost 10s of thousands and I imagine the council would come in for some heavy criticism if they are seen to be spending even a pound which isn't strictly necessary at any given stage. The spotlight of scrutiny is particularly strong on this.
The onus then would be a decision based on what survivors an local people wanted, ask them and I'm sure they would think it was better that way. And surely, a solution to the wind factor could also be found as all tall buildings needed scaffolding, etc to be built..
Reply With Quote
  #522  
Old 06.07.2017, 15:01
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,248
Groaned at 46 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Safety

As it is, it creates relatively little resistance to the wind. Once covered the resistance will be much bigger and thereby the forces working on it.

The building may be structurally damaged (dunno, but it seems a virtual given after it's burned out completely). In such a case you want to avoid increasing the forces working on the remains.
I'd say more the other way around. The insulation and cladding on the outside has definitely been compromised, if not the structure of the building itself, or at the very least the exterior brickwork.

Bits of that will likely come loose in a storm, causing a hazard to people below. Scaffolding and cladding the shell would reduce the hazard.

Like I said above, there were probably enough people in the building doing the forensics until now. Now that they're done, the job of dealing with the building itself will be put out to tender, and that will involve some form of scaffolding and wrapping.
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #523  
Old 06.07.2017, 15:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
I'd say more the other way around. The insulation and cladding on the outside has definitely been compromised, if not the structure of the building itself, or at the very least the exterior brickwork.

Bits of that will likely come loose in a storm, causing a hazard to people below. Scaffolding and cladding the shell would reduce the hazard.

Like I said above, there were probably enough people in the building doing the forensics until now. Now that they're done, the job of dealing with the building itself will be put out to tender, and that will involve some form of scaffolding and wrapping.
The report on the London news yesterday was covering an item about its structural integrity. Apparently it's safe enough to work inside for the recovery teams, etc., with monitoring equipment to monitor any movement. It has set off the monitoring equipment a couple of times because the structure is contracting slightly as it is cooling. The equipment picks up such movements, triggers an alarm, and everyone has to get out each time until they do further checks.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #524  
Old 06.07.2017, 17:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,629
Groaned at 503 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 12,816 Times in 6,645 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Bits of that will likely come loose in a storm, causing a hazard to people below. Scaffolding and cladding the shell would reduce the hazard.
I was mostly addressing the tarps bit. Everything that creates little resistance against the wind, including scaffolding, mesh, and nets, would largely avoid that issue.
Reply With Quote
  #525  
Old 06.07.2017, 21:06
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,525
Groaned at 424 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,587 Times in 9,854 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Finally we're going to get some proper testing on the cladding.

"Cladding samples that have failed safety tests in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire will be subjected to further "large-scale" testing.

Experts will fix a complete cladding system to a 30ft-high (9m) demonstration wall and subject it to "a severe fire", the government said."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40520596
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #526  
Old 06.07.2017, 22:26
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Safety

As it is, it creates relatively little resistance to the wind. Once covered the resistance will be much bigger and thereby the forces working on it.

The building may be structurally damaged (dunno, but it seems a virtual given after it's burned out completely). In such a case you want to avoid increasing the forces working on the remains.
They could use fine mesh netting. That would have less wind resistance. It is going to take many months of sifting through the debris (around 15 tons per floor) before any demolition can start. By then the weather will have changed and debris could be blowing from the building. That doesn't seem like an ideal situation to me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #527  
Old 06.07.2017, 23:46
Hausamsee's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lucerne
Posts: 686
Groaned at 105 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 922 Times in 403 Posts
Hausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
They could use fine mesh netting. That would have less wind resistance. It is going to take many months of sifting through the debris (around 15 tons per floor) before any demolition can start. By then the weather will have changed and debris could be blowing from the building. That doesn't seem like an ideal situation to me.
Are we onto something here that they aren't?

Given the incompetence of North Kensington council with all aspects of this tragedy so far, might they have not thought of what we are discussing right now?

What if there was a storm or high winds that could feasibly come out of nothing. And usually following consistently warm weather like they are having now in London it would be followed fairly often by strong winds, heavy rain, etc. I mean, since this has happened the weather has not been so volatile but you never know...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Hausamsee for this useful post:
  #528  
Old 18.07.2017, 17:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 441
Groaned at 62 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 666 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Just scandalous...

BBC: Electricity problems at Grenfell Tower 'never resolved'

"Dozens of residents of Grenfell Tower suffered electricity power surges so strong their appliances malfunctioned, overheated and emitted smoke a few years before the fire, it has emerged.

Documents seen by the BBC reveal how 25 residents claimed compensation from the council following the surges in 2013.

Some say electricity problems persisted into the months before June's fire.

Police say the blaze, in which at least 80 are thought to have died, started in a fridge freezer on the fourth floor."
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #529  
Old 19.07.2017, 16:59
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Are we onto something here that they aren't?

Given the incompetence of North Kensington council with all aspects of this tragedy so far, might they have not thought of what we are discussing right now?

What if there was a storm or high winds that could feasibly come out of nothing. And usually following consistently warm weather like they are having now in London it would be followed fairly often by strong winds, heavy rain, etc. I mean, since this has happened the weather has not been so volatile but you never know...
They are finally planning this but it is still a long way off

Quote:
Tomassina Hessel, a young mum who lost her home on the Grenfell Estate, told me LBC that November is far too late.

She said: "Two friends of mine were walking past the tower and a gust of wind blew in their direction.

"They just almost threw up, thinking they were inhaling people's ashes.

"By November, all of that dust will have blown away anyway."
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/wes...d-up-november/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #530  
Old 20.07.2017, 15:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: London Tower Block Fire

David Lammy face palm.

https://order-order.com/2017/07/20/l...-hillsborough/
Reply With Quote
  #531  
Old 28.07.2017, 10:47
Hausamsee's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lucerne
Posts: 686
Groaned at 105 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 922 Times in 403 Posts
Hausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

It's going to be a case of corporate manslaughter then...
Reply With Quote
  #532  
Old 02.08.2017, 19:34
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

There appears to be plenty of vacant housing in the area but none of them are likely to be going to the affected families by the looks of it.

Something needs to be done to dramatically reduce the number of vacant investment properties all over London, and probably elsewhere.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...lsea-revealed/
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #533  
Old 02.08.2017, 19:44
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
There appears to be plenty of vacant housing in the area but none of them are likely to be going to the affected families by the looks of it.

Something needs to be done to dramatically reduce the number of vacant investment properties all over London, and probably elsewhere.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...lsea-revealed/
London house prices have fallen significantly, I see plenty of stuff reduced 30% & still not sold. Once the market totally collapses there will be huge turnover
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #534  
Old 02.08.2017, 23:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
London house prices have fallen significantly, I see plenty of stuff reduced 30% & still not sold. Once the market totally collapses there will be huge turnover
Yes.

Typically when a real estate market recedes (collapses is too drastical a term IMHO) there is a massive lag between what people are willing to pay and what people are willing to sell for. Buyers overestimate the shrinking of prices and go in with an aggressive bargain hunter attitude, whereas the selling side underestimates the gravity of the situation. This results in fewer properties being sold and hence a huge backlog of unsold overpriced properties forming a glut that misrepresents the real market. Only houses actually being sold are a reliable indicator for what the market is really doing.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #535  
Old 04.08.2017, 08:58
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,525
Groaned at 424 Times in 327 Posts
Thanked 17,587 Times in 9,854 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Seem the Torch Tower in Dubai is aptly named. Second fire in 2 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40822269
Reply With Quote
  #536  
Old 07.08.2017, 14:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 441
Groaned at 62 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,174 Times in 666 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Every Flat in a New South London Development Has Been Sold to Foreign Investors

Wonder what kind of progress has been made in finding the Grenfell tower survivors suitable and affordable accommodation.
Reply With Quote
  #537  
Old 07.08.2017, 20:05
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Every Flat in a New South London Development Has Been Sold to Foreign Investors

Wonder what kind of progress has been made in finding the Grenfell tower survivors suitable and affordable accommodation.
The last I heard, less than 20 families were sorted.

EDIT: Today, 9th August, only 14 families have been rehoused so far

Last edited by Deep Purple; 10.08.2017 at 00:22. Reason: Update
Reply With Quote
  #538  
Old 07.08.2017, 21:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
Seem the Torch Tower in Dubai is aptly named. Second fire in 2 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40822269
I blame the Tory cuts.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #539  
Old 16.08.2017, 19:36
Deep Purple's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 5,264
Groaned at 15 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5,273 Times in 2,563 Posts
Deep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond reputeDeep Purple has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

I don't understand why this is considered to be 'quite shocking'. I would be more concerned if the fire brigade hadn't been consulted on the renovations.

It is far more important to determine if they were given all the facts and whether any recommendations they made were implemented

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40938697#
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Deep Purple for this useful post:
  #540  
Old 16.08.2017, 20:18
Hausamsee's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lucerne
Posts: 686
Groaned at 105 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 922 Times in 403 Posts
Hausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond reputeHausamsee has a reputation beyond repute
Re: London Tower Block Fire

Quote:
View Post
I don't understand why this is considered to be 'quite shocking'. I would be more concerned if the fire brigade hadn't been consulted on the renovations.

It is far more important to determine if they were given all the facts and whether any recommendations they made were implemented

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40938697#
Incredible and scandalous, there is really a whole lot of truth that seems not to be seeing the light of day.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fire safety regulations & law in apartment block? bmflex Housing in general 26 01.04.2019 20:58
Protesters block London City airport Dack Rambo International affairs/politics 33 07.09.2016 18:03
Uetliberg tower turnstile SouthMtn Travel/day trips/free time 24 11.04.2016 01:12
Help needed re; Flights: Block booking to London (50-80) Hausamsee Transportation/driving 19 02.10.2009 16:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0