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  #41  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:12
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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UK landlords VS Swiss ones.
Swiss landlords vs UK Housing Associations. There is a difference, and why that means we shouldn't get worked up over one tragic accident.
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  #42  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:13
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Umm, no.

Tom


Which is why I asked - and was comprehensively answered. I like to plug knowledge gaps on an ad hoc basis.
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  #43  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:13
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Swiss landlords vs UK Housing Associations. There is a difference, and why that means we shouldn't get worked up over one tragic accident.

I actually agree with you. I may need to lie down...
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:15
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Which is why I asked - and was comprehensively answered. I like to plug knowledge gaps on an ad hoc basis.
halon gas and co2 are good fire extinguishers for a start
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I thought all gas was flammable. What kind is It? On balance it's probably a good idea I mostly deal with books and kids and stuff...
Ummm..... That would make CO2 and Halide fire extinguishers a bit... dodgy.

There's Nitrogen... 78 % of the air you breath.
and Argon,
and Neon,
and Helium
and ...

get the picture?
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:18
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Remember that in Switzerland it is legal to store live ammunition in your apartment. Now that is highly flammable!
No, it's not highly flammable. Also, in case there is a fire and ammunition is being burned, it most likely won't pose any substantial hazzard, as ammo needs a barrel in order to generate lethal effects.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:25
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Can someone please explain to me why the feck multiple jump mats or life nets were not brought out and placed around the buildings early on when it was clear people had no way of escaping?

EDIT - I am assuming they exist? I'm sure I have seen large inflatable devices that can be jumped on from pretty serious heights...

Last edited by Chuff; 14.06.2017 at 16:35.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:34
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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halon gas and co2 are good fire extinguishers for a start
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Ummm..... That would make CO2 and Halide fire extinguishers a bit... dodgy.

There's Nitrogen... 78 % of the air you breath.
and Argon,
and Neon,
and Helium
and ...

get the picture?


Yup. Although I did know about Nitrogen and Neon. I also knew they weren't in a fridge, hence my question. Anyhew....


If you guys ever need any assistance with 16th - 19th C literature, I'm your gal. I haven't got head space for any of this crazy gas stuff...
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  #49  
Old 14.06.2017, 16:37
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Can someone please explain to me why the feck multiple jump mats or life nets were not brought out and placed around the buildings early on when it was clear people has no way of escaping? It honestly beggars belief.
It does.

But given the pics of whacking great lumps of cladding falling down later, there may only have been a short time when that would have helped.

I imagine that the fire dept arrived and took a while to realize that this wasn't "just" a high rise fire.

Most people only think about fire as life threatening when it's already too late.

Here's a simple example: I presume that well over half of EF live above the ground floor.

How many have a rope in their living space to get to the ground floor with?
How many have figured out where to tie that rope on the balcony AND a window ahead of time?
How many have explained this to their partner, children?
How many have practiced it?

Once something threatens you and your family your brain gets flooded with adrenaline. This is not conducive to remembering how to tie a knot you learned in the scouts, nor to figure out where to tie it to.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:45
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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How many have a rope in their living space to get to the ground floor with?
How many have figured out where to tie that rope on the balcony AND a window ahead of time?
How many have explained this to their partner, children?
How many have practiced it?

Once something threatens you and your family your brain gets flooded with adrenaline. This is not conducive to remembering how to tie a knot you learned in the scouts, nor to figure out where to tie it to.


I have but then I am mortally afraid of fire. I am also one of those persons who always will check the emergency exits in hotels and so on.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:48
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Can someone please explain to me why the feck multiple jump mats or life nets were not brought out and placed around the buildings early on when it was clear people had no way of escaping? It honestly beggars belief.
The tower is a 23 / 24 storey building. Estimating each storey at 3m that makes it about 70m high.

Check here to calculate the effect of falling from that height - I guess they don't have mats big enough to be of any use.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:50
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I have but then I am mortally afraid of fire. I am also one of those persons who always will check the emergency exits in hotels and so on.
You only need to be inside a burning building once, and thereafter your brainstem scans for Alarms, extinguishers and exits in every single space you enter from that moment on.

I also read the fire instructions with a grain of salt.
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Old 14.06.2017, 16:59
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I am also one of those persons who always will check the emergency exits in hotels and so on.
Nothing wrong with that.

I've been caught checking out the emergency plan on the hotel room, dissing on the irregularities according to the fire safety laws. I don't even notice I do it (I also noticed I instinctively check other ridiculous stuff like height of railings, volume distance and stair shape).

On the other hand, my latest encounter with fire alarm resulted in an efficient calm exit, leading sleepy husband and frightened neighbour hotel guests to the closest exit. Sometimes it pays to be a nerd. (It wasn't a fire, though, some idiot decided to ignore the 10.000 "no smoking" signs and lit a cigaret in his room at 3am, putting the whole hotel in alert mode).
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  #54  
Old 14.06.2017, 17:08
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The tower is a 23 / 24 storey building. Estimating each storey at 3m that makes it about 70m high.

Check here to calculate the effect of falling from that height - I guess they don't have mats big enough to be of any use.
I didn't realise they no longer use seem to use jump mats or safety nets since the 80's. As for how effective they are... can they be any worse than jumping on to bare concrete? There was a baby thrown from a window which someone was incredibly lucky to catch... would a baby or child have been harmed by falling on a large inflatable jump mat from a great height? Probably not fatally vs hitting the pavement.

Last edited by Chuff; 14.06.2017 at 17:22.
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Old 14.06.2017, 17:17
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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I didn't realise they no longer use seem to use jump mats or safety nets since the 80's. As for how effective they are... can they be any worse than jumping on to bare concrete? There was a baby thrown form a window which someone was incredibly lucky to catch... would a baby or child have been harmed by falling on a large inflatable jump mat from a great height? Probably not fatally vs hitting the pavement.


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Old 14.06.2017, 17:21
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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On the other hand, my latest encounter with fire alarm resulted in an efficient calm exit, leading sleepy husband and frightened neighbour hotel guests to the closest exit. Sometimes it pays to be a nerd. (It wasn't a fire, though, some idiot decided to ignore the 10.000 "no smoking" signs and lit a cigaret in his room at 3am, putting the whole hotel in alert mode).


Similar experience to find out at the reception desk that they forget to inform everyone that this was a test only. The guy who walked/ran down whilst trying to put on his trousers was not amused.
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Old 14.06.2017, 17:55
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Similar experience to find out at the reception desk that they forget to inform everyone that this was a test only. The guy who walked/ran down whilst trying to put on his trousers was not amused.
I once set off the fire alarm in a Travel Inn hotel in the UK by using a deoderant spray under the smoke detector.

Emptied the hotel at 6am.. Full call out for fire brigade etc
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Old 14.06.2017, 18:07
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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No, it's not highly flammable. Also, in case there is a fire and ammunition is being burned, it most likely won't pose any substantial hazzard, as ammo needs a barrel in order to generate lethal effects.
Actually no, ammo without a barrel will go of with the same velocity as ammo in a barrel, only with the difference that the target is anywhere and instead of just one bit of metal to contend with you get two.
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Old 14.06.2017, 18:16
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Actually no, ammo without a barrel will go of with the same velocity as ammo in a barrel, only with the difference that the target is anywhere and instead of just one bit of metal to contend with you get two.
The case explodes and the bullet being the heavier component, doesn't go anywhere. The only danger might be from the brass casing but that's minimal.
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Old 14.06.2017, 18:19
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Actually no, ammo without a barrel will go of with the same velocity as ammo in a barrel, only with the difference that the target is anywhere and instead of just one bit of metal to contend with you get two.
so in that case, why does a rifle bullet travel further then a pistol bullet

without a barrel most of the force dissipates into the air, rather then pushing the bullet along
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