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  #141  
Old 16.06.2017, 11:55
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Please read page 8, Paragraphs 2.4 and 2.8.
https://www.modernupvcwindows.co.uk/...ide---2014.pdf
We rent out our home in the UK and yes, the window reg is correct, we are also required to have working smoke alarms, but not fire extinguishers or fire blankets.
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Old 16.06.2017, 12:06
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

The UK based company that manufactured the cladding has offered up the specifications on their website. This overrides previous reports I'd seen stating that the cladding was manufactured by the same Chinese company that provided to cladding blamed for a fire in Melbourne.
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Our thoughts are with those affected by the terrible fire at Grenfell Tower in London. Our records show a Celotex product (RS5000) was purchased for use in refurbishing the building. Full technical information on all of our products is available here on our website. If required, we will assist with enquiries from the relevant authorities at the appropriate time. Due to the nature of this developing situation it would be inappropriate for us to comment or speculate further on this tragedy.
https://www.celotex.co.uk/
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  #143  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:11
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

PLEASE STOP EXPLOITING THE DEAD OF GRENFELL TOWER

Some Labourites are using the Grenfell disaster to score political points.

We don’t even know how many souls perished in the Grenfell Tower inferno, and yet already they are being marshalled to party-political ends. Already Labour-leaning commentators and campaigners are using them, using the freshly dead and the unspeakable horrors they experienced, to make milage for their party, to brand the Tories evil and Jeremy Corbyn saintly. In the 20 years I’ve been writing about politics, I can’t remember a national tragedy being exploited for party-political gain so quickly. The time between a calamity occurring and the use of it to harm one’s political enemies and fortify one’s political allies is shrinking all the time. It’s now mere hours, minutes even, courtesy of social media. What has happened to us?

In the 24 hours since fire engulfed that tower in west London, the blame game has been intensifying. There’s a feverish hunt for the one person or the one thing – or the one attitude, primarily uncaring Toryism – that we might pin this horror on. The landlords didn’t care enough. Theresa May’s new chief-of-staff ‘sat on’ a report about tower-block safety. Tories, including rich Tories with double-barrelled surnames (awful creatures), voted against a proposed new system of fines for landlords who let down tenants. Boris Johnson, when he was mayor, made cuts to fire services. Even worse, during a debate about the cuts in the London Assembly he told a Labour rival to ‘get stuffed’. That detail is appearing everywhere, because the true aim here is not to work out what went wrong at Grenfell but to say: ‘Tory scum.’

Social media is awash with Tory-bashing. This party, May herself, is to blame. How? Why? Did they light the flames? Fan the flames? No, it’s because they do not care. They are wicked and they emit this wickedness. They ‘love money more than life’, tweeters say; they have unleashed the ‘horror of austerity’; they are still the ‘nasty party’ and their nastiness kills. The speed and ease with which legitimate questions about what the managers of Grenfell allegedly failed to do have crossed the line into the blackening of certain Tories’ names, and the indictment of the entire culture of Toryism, suggests this is driven less by an instinct for thorough investigation than by an urge for retribution. There’s an old-world feel to it: something dreadful has happened and so we need someone, some thing, to punish for it, to project our grief on to, to transform into the human embodiment of this sin so that he or she might be cast out and our society cleansed.

This compulsion to blame is a central feature of 21st-century life. Every accident or awful thing that happens is followed by now almost instant demands for heads to roll. We seem incapable of accepting that sometimes horrendous experiences cannot easily be blamed on an individual or a group or a party. Like medieval communities who burnt witches when their crops failed – someone just had to be held morally responsible for the awful consequences of crop failure – today we point a collective or at least media finger at ‘uncaring’ individuals and institutions every time a tragedy occurs.

This is not to say there isn’t a discussion to be had about Grenfell. Of course there is, and a very serious one indeed. Specific issues, about the building’s cladding and its weak fire-alarm system, must be addressed. And far broader questions about the failures of house-building and the corresponding warping of the housing market, and how these things impact on house prices and on the moral value we accord to social-housing residents, must be asked too. James Heartfield raises these broader questions on spiked today, and spiked will publish more on this next week. But the blame game, today’s sometimes hysterical retributive instinct, doesn’t address these issues or questions. In fact it can distract from them. Its preference for condemnation, for the collective chiding of evil individuals, for finding the person or thing we can all round on and get a kick from destroying, elevates the narcissistic moral needs of the media mob over serious analysis of Britain’s broad and complicated economic and social problems.

‘But the Grenfell disaster is political’, the people exploiting it cry, somewhat defensively. And they’re right. It is. Social housing and gentrification and the eco-approved application of cladding to tower blocks are political issues, or at least public issues, and we should talk about them. But these people aren’t treating Grenfell as political; they’re treating it as party political. They’re using it to demean Toryism as evil, and big up Corbyn as the leader Britain needs right now. He cares, you see, unlike them. He is Good, they are Bad. This isn’t politics – this is a culture war, where the horrors experienced by the working classes of North Kensington are used to underpin the binary moralism of a Corbynista worldview of the right as wicked and the left as decent. They are building their political movement on the corpses of the poor, and no amount of radical-sounding lingo can cover up just how cynical, opportunistic and depraved that is.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...2#.WUOKKuuGPmG
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  #144  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:17
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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We rent out our home in the UK and yes, the window reg is correct, we are also required to have working smoke alarms, but not fire extinguishers or fire blankets.
Agreed on the fire extinguisher and fire blanket, they're not a legal requirement. However, I've spoken to three lettings agents so far who won't market the property without them (in the NW of the UK), and we've had them in the last two places we rented in the UK. I also had them in a house share back in the early 80s, but not in a council flat I had in the late 80s.

Our last landlord, who became a good friend, was converting the stable block next to our coachman's cottage into 4 apartments. He used to buy the extinguishers and blankets in bulk because none of the lettings agents in the area (Berkshire) would market his properties without them.
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  #145  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:20
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Here's the rent of an actual flat in the Grenfell Tower off of Rightmove. £2,145 pcm. But let's not let facts get in the way of me blaming this on Tory cuts.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-56848189.html
is there anybody here who actually knows the location.

I'm confused by rather contradictory information.

On the one hand this is supposed to be a rubbish building, provided by the Tories to to put away the poor in squalid sub-human conditions. On the other hand there appear to have been appartments like this, which maybe shout chavvish and poor taste, but don't exactly say poor or squalid. That doesn't exactly correlate with the narrative.

What sort of place was it really?
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  #146  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:25
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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is there anybody here who actually knows the location.

I'm confused by rather contradictory information.

On the one hand this is supposed to be a rubbish building, provided by the Tories to to put away the poor in squalid sub-human conditions. On the other hand there appear to have been appartments like this, which maybe shout chavvish and poor taste, but don't exactly say poor or squalid. That doesn't exactly correlate with the narrative.

What sort of place was it really?
It was social housing so probably a % of it was occupied by residents receiving benefit payments towards their rent.

I'm not sure any of it could (or should) be described as "squalid" or "sub-human" though.
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  #147  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:29
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The UK based company that manufactured the cladding has offered up the specifications on their website. This overrides previous reports I'd seen stating that the cladding was manufactured by the same Chinese company that provided to cladding blamed for a fire in Melbourne.
https://www.celotex.co.uk/
So this shows that the cladding had a class 0 fire rating which from my brief googling appears to be the best you can get.

There seems to be so much information and misinformation going around. I feel we should let the investigation take place and then make judgments.
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  #148  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:32
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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The UK based company that manufactured the cladding has offered up the specifications on their website. This overrides previous reports I'd seen stating that the cladding was manufactured by the same Chinese company that provided to cladding blamed for a fire in Melbourne.
https://www.celotex.co.uk/
RS5000 - Class O fire performance. According to this appropriate for " hospitals, schools, old peoples’ homes, etc."
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  #149  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:38
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

From Loz's post...
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‘But the Grenfell disaster is political’, the people exploiting it cry, somewhat defensively. And they’re right. It is. Social housing and gentrification and the eco-approved application of cladding to tower blocks are political issues, or at least public issues, and we should talk about them. But these people aren’t treating Grenfell as political; they’re treating it as party political.
To be honest, I haven't seen any of this except for the 72 Tory landlords thing, and I've been keeping away from social media. Just watching last night's 'Question Time' now.

I'm reminded that, at the time of the last tower block fire of this nature in 2009, there was a Labour government in office. We've since seen a 5yr coalition government and a Conservative government. It appears that all parties have repeatedly failed to grasp this nettle, and without a list of the 312 who voted the last housing bill amendment down, there's no point going down that route. They may all have been part of the problem. Now, they all need to be part of the solution.
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  #150  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:47
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Statements like this sow the seeds of unrest.

Would you not think it suitable, on a temporary basis, to requisition flats which have been bought as investment and left empty? Perhaps. Where are those people going to go??? Tents around Heathrow?
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Old 16.06.2017, 12:50
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

Dont worry guys, Lilly allen is here to save the world

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Old 16.06.2017, 12:50
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Would you not think it suitable, on a temporary basis, to requisition flats which have been bought as investment and left empty? Perhaps. Where are those people going to go??? Tents around Heathrow?
No. This is what Marxists do.
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  #153  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:54
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Would you not think it suitable, on a temporary basis, to requisition flats which have been bought as investment and left empty? Perhaps. Where are those people going to go??? Tents around Heathrow?
You can take the girl out of Central Europe, but...


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  #154  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:56
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

OK- so again- what would YOU do with them? Give me a humane practical situation. This especially as it may soon be decided that many other similar blocks are not safe and people and families will have to be rehoused?

What is the capitalist solution to this- please, pray tell, both of you. In fact, I don't care if you call it marxist, liberal, capitalist - what the heck- just give me a workable solution for those desperate families - please.
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Old 16.06.2017, 12:57
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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No. This is what Marxists do.
I'm guessing Marxists would do it by force but on a less hysterical level, there's no reason why the councils can't negotiate some temporary deal with the owners of the empty properties to house a percentage of the homeless.

Everyone is trying to look like the good guy now so this would weed out the all-mouth-and-no-trousers types.

The councils have been penny pinching for decades, now would be the time to flash a bit of cash to give these families a bit of security while they get themselves back on their feet.
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  #156  
Old 16.06.2017, 12:58
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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OK- so again- what would YOU do with them? Give me a humane practical situation. This especially as it may soon be decided that many other similar blocks are not safe and people and families will have to be rehoused?

What is the capitalist solution to this- please, pray tell.
This isn't about "capitalism". This is about fundamental human rights. I do not - and will never - agree that the government has the right to "requisition" personal property for any reason.


Funny how thousands of homeless people were provided with accommodation after the Blitz without other people's rights being trampled on.


I despair at the fact that any freeborn Englishman could come up with such a nasty, continental solution to the problem.
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Old 16.06.2017, 12:59
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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No. This is what Marxists do.
Yes, and appropriating a catastrophe to push through emergency measures that you were quietly waiting to do all along is a hallmark of dictatorship.

Remember how Stalin used a poor harvest as an excuse to seize the land of rich farmers?

Remember how Hitler used a political assasination in the USA as an excuse to deport German Jews?

This is the hallmark of how cynical dictators think, and bide their time until a suitable excuse comes their way. Emergencies make people more willing to let the brake blocks be taken of restraint, and to accept radical measures because they may believe there is no alternative. Cynics make use of that vulnerability in the thinking of otherwise reasonable and restrained people.
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  #158  
Old 16.06.2017, 13:00
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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OK- so again- what would YOU do with them? Give me a humane practical situation. This especially as it may soon be decided that many other similar blocks are not safe and people and families will have to be rehoused?

What is the capitalist solution to this- please, pray tell, both of you. In fact, I don't care if you call it marxist, liberal, capitalist - what the heck- just give me a workable solution for those desperate families - please.
Temporary containers, distribute them through available temporary housing in the city of London, put them up in hotels... there are other solutions you know.

It's 125 households maximum. Not a national emergency.
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Old 16.06.2017, 13:00
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

So, YOU propose a solution for those people?

Go on- tell me.

Post crossed - containers oh yes- wonderful- in the middle of Summer.

Hôtels, for how long? Have you tried living in a Hôtel room with a family, for more than a couple of weeks. Making those buildings safe- and all the others which are probably about to be declared unsafe- will take how long?
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Old 16.06.2017, 13:01
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Re: London Tower Block Fire

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Temporary containers, distribute them through available temporary housing in the city of London, put them up in hotels... there are other solutions you know.

It's 125 households maximum. Not a national emergency.
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So, YOU propose a solution for those people?

Go on- tell me.
Reading comprehension a problem for you, Odile?


Anyway, I've heard there's an empty property owned by an absent landlord in Leicestershire that could be seized to put up a family or two...
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