Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.06.2017, 17:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,750
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,557 Times in 1,409 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

According to bild.de

http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/he...9240.bild.html

You might think about him what you want - but he knew how to grab a historic moment and ride on it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 16.06.2017, 17:32
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 7,741
Groaned at 98 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 5,173 Times in 2,926 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Germany's Helmut Kohl dies, aged 87

Another famous person has passed away.

Germany's Helmut Kohl dies, aged 87
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40307918
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16.06.2017, 17:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,467
Groaned at 185 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 11,425 Times in 3,850 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

the man who gave Germany "Solidaritätssteuer" and the Europeans the Euro, has passed away. how many generations will it take to repair his achievements?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 16.06.2017, 18:42
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 7,741
Groaned at 98 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 5,173 Times in 2,926 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

If it wasn't for EUR then we would still be buying Oktoberfest beer in Deutschmark and Guiness in Dublin in Irish pounds. Life gets easier this way
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16.06.2017, 20:05
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 4,096
Groaned at 97 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 6,640 Times in 2,455 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Helmut "Birne" Kohl, der Bunzler aller Deutschen.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16.06.2017, 20:27
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 206
Groaned at 67 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 45 Posts
Thomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthy
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

RIP to Mr. Chancellor.

Though it seems Chancellor Merkel will surpass his record.

Lately German system is becoming my favourite.

I wouldn't think Federation would be way to go in Europe but Germans are doing it right
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Thomaz for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 16.06.2017, 21:02
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post

Though it seems Chancellor Merkel will surpass his record.
In duration yes, but never ever in financial damage to the economy.

RIP.

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 16.06.2017, 21:49
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,651
Groaned at 49 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 2,874 Times in 1,446 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
the man who gave Germany "Solidaritätssteuer" and the Europeans the Euro, has passed away. how many generations will it take to repair his achievements?
The Euro must be one of the most powerful currencies in the world according to you! Because unlike an other currency it is able cause all kind of economic havoc independent of the economic policies pursued by the governments etc...

And then there is the UK with it's pound who despite having full control over it's currency has not produced a positive balance of trade in well over 20 years and has had to apply the same austerity measures as everyone else. And yet if we were to take British economists seriously control of ones currency was supposed be crucial to avoiding such situations.

A lot of old nonsense!
__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17.06.2017, 10:26
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

1. Kohl did not bring the Euro on his own... Mitterand was at least equally involved.

2. Kohl doubled the German state debt in his first eight years(!!!)... he basically bought votes by throwing unparalleled amounts of "printer money" at every lobby group around.

3. He doubled this doubled debt again during the reunification- in a process that pretty much ever economist describes as the worst way to handle the situation possible.

He was an absolute disaster for my country and the facts are pretty damn obvious- but the conservatives somehow managed to glorify him as the peace bringing angle he never was.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 17.06.2017, 12:12
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 206
Groaned at 67 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 45 Posts
Thomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthyThomaz is considered unworthy
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

I have no detail as to what has he done during his terms but is the source of tension here East Germany?

Do you think he spent too much on there?

West Germans don't like him

BTW Euro wasn't only his idea, that is true.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17.06.2017, 12:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 955
Groaned at 159 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 725 Times in 393 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
1. Kohl did not bring the Euro on his own... Mitterand was at least equally involved.

2. Kohl doubled the German state debt in his first eight years(!!!)... he basically bought votes by throwing unparalleled amounts of "printer money" at every lobby group around.

3. He doubled this doubled debt again during the reunification- in a process that pretty much ever economist describes as the worst way to handle the situation possible.

He was an absolute disaster for my country and the facts are pretty damn obvious- but the conservatives somehow managed to glorify him as the peace bringing angle he never was.


What you are talking about?! Disaster? Germany is way, way better today than it was 40 or 20 years ago, much of it thanks to Kohl and Merkel.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Capo for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 17.06.2017, 13:03
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,020
Groaned at 172 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 16,888 Times in 7,166 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Kohl set a certain tone by attempting to solve any problem by throwing enough money at it, either that, or doing nothing in the belief it would sort itself out.

Throwing money around in Europe and the world certainly helped buy Germany many friends. But I think he didn't just throw money around but he also did listen and tried to broker mutual understanding and to seek unity rather than to underline differences. He was a major contributor to stability in Europe.

Kohl of course didn't invent any of this. His predecessors such as Helmut Schmidt and Willy Brandt did much the same, but Kohl did it more generously and predictably.

Merkal however has taken the opposite course. She wants to highlight differences rather than commonalities. She says we can't trust Trump, we need to punish the Uk for Brexit, we need to be nasty to Eastern Europeans because they have a different point of view than we do. This combined with austerity, Schäuble basically acting like an &sshole over Southern Europe etc etc do in many way represent a 180 degree turn and departure from what Kohl built up.

Kohl got on really fine with Mitterand although the ideological differences between them were at least as large as those between Merkel and Orban or Merkal and Trump. Mitterand was an ex WW2 fascist turned leftie who dreamt that the world could be improved if only it became more like France. Kohl was a bourgeois boy with little ideological baggage but with a low resolution understanding of history and a lot of focus on the economy. Yet they got on really fine, because they met as equals and believed in placing common ground above differences..

Merkel has a lot to learn. She only gets on well with politicians who agree to be her lap dogs. She surrounds herself with idiots. She believes in isolationism. I think history will judge her harshly.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 17.06.2017, 15:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,750
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,557 Times in 1,409 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
1. Kohl did not bring the Euro on his own... Mitterand was at least equally involved.

2. Kohl doubled the German state debt in his first eight years(!!!)... he basically bought votes by throwing unparalleled amounts of "printer money" at every lobby group around.

3. He doubled this doubled debt again during the reunification- in a process that pretty much ever economist describes as the worst way to handle the situation possible.

He was an absolute disaster for my country and the facts are pretty damn obvious- but the conservatives somehow managed to glorify him as the peace bringing angle he never was.

Yeah, there's some truth in this.

Basically, Europe (and Germany) worked very well as long as everybody was a bit better of year after year. And if some sort of conflict arose - never mind, we'll write a cheque...
Now that this is no longer the case, the centrifugal forces are in full action, barely held in check by an ultra-expansive monetary policy by the ECB.

As for the reunification: on a purely economic ground, certain things were really bad. E.g. the exchange rate was set at 1:2 (1 DM for 2 East-Mark), while economists recommended a factor of 1:7 (or less) - the same for wages (productivity was very low in the beginning).
Kohl was aware of these projections, but he brushed them aside.
Because that model would not have went down very well with the population: he wasn't a "Blood, Sweat and Tears"-politician, quite simply (if there every was one in post-war Germany - ever since the Sportpalast-Speech, Germans have an almost clinical aversion against this kind of language...)
In a way, this was all very typical of post-war Germany.

And I dare say: with his death, the German post-war era has now come to an end.

Last edited by rainer_d; 17.06.2017 at 15:49.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17.06.2017, 19:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 694
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 357 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
Kohl was a bourgeois boy with little ideological baggage but with a low resolution understanding of history and a lot of focus on the economy.
One can criticize Mr. Kohl for a lot of things, but he did hold a genuine PhD in history. Back then this did require a rather high resolution understanding of history. And his focus on economy caused Germany to be referred to as "the sick man of Europe".

Quote:
View Post
Merkel has a lot to learn. She only gets on well with politicians who agree to be her lap dogs. She surrounds herself with idiots. She believes in isolationism. I think history will judge her harshly.
The person you are referring to is
a. male and
b. called Trump.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17.06.2017, 23:47
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,020
Groaned at 172 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 16,888 Times in 7,166 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
One can criticize Mr. Kohl for a lot of things, but he did hold a genuine PhD in history. Back then this did require a rather high resolution understanding of history. And his focus on economy caused Germany to be referred to as "the sick man of Europe".
Having a degree in history does not equate to understanding it. Most historians just concentrate on a very narrow period and topic.

Quote:
View Post
The person you are referring to is
a. male and
b. called Trump.
If you're trying to say there are parallels between Merkel and Trump, I won't contradict you.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18.06.2017, 10:52
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 10,116
Groaned at 237 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 18,227 Times in 6,657 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
I have no detail as to what has he done during his terms but is the source of tension here East Germany?

Do you think he spent too much on there?

West Germans don't like him

BTW Euro wasn't only his idea, that is true.
No, it's the opposite: His economic policies were terrible already for eight years before the reunification. But he somehow managed to twist the story that all the new debt is necessary to finance some miraculous rebuild of Eastern Germany. Which was a financial failure - the government privatized everything that was somehow usable for peanuts and then used tax money for decades to keep unsustainable jobs on life support. At the same time did they raise the wages and retirement money in Eastern Germany to levels that weren't warranted with the same level of productivity - so you make absolutely sure that the only investors coming are the ones doing so for another layer of artificial tax breaks that harmed the economy further.

It's the first general election I remember as a young teen... early 90s, first time a unified Germany votes
SPD candidate Oskar Lafontaine: It's going to take at least two decades, it's going to cost a lot of money, but in the end is it worth it and if we work together, can we achieve a successful unified Germany.

Kohl: (and I translate literally here) "I foresee blooming landscapes all over Eastern Germany".

Guess who won...

Before Kohl did we have a different political culture in Germany and it's a lot worse than it used to be.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 18.06.2017, 11:01
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 5,665
Groaned at 37 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 10,643 Times in 4,193 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
It's the first general election I remember as a young teen... early 90s, first time a unified Germany votes
SPD candidate Oskar Lafontaine: It's going to take at least two decades, it's going to cost a lot of money, but in the end is it worth it and if we work together, can we achieve a successful unified Germany.

Kohl: (and I translate literally here) "I foresee blooming landscapes all over Eastern Germany".

Guess who won...

Before Kohl did we have a different political culture in Germany and it's a lot worse than it used to be.
I'm only a few years older, and I had only recently arrived "here in Europe".

The way I remember it, Kohl more or less said "We're going to purchase and renovate one of the poorest nations on the face of the earth, and it won't cost anyone anything." I remember thinking it odd that there was so much cheering in response to this.

I understood the fervor for reunification (my then GF had family on both sides of the border), but the willingness to believe that the whole process would be as simple and inexpensive as Kohl presented it seemed a bit... naive, if not entirely delusional.
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 18.06.2017, 11:12
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 454
Groaned at 144 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 1,417 Times in 691 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

The masses always prefer to believe in benevolent fantasy - Greece , refugee crisis , Zimbabwe - and will deny any hard evidence to the contrary for as long as they can get away with it.

Discipline and honesty have always been the keys to running a society successfully.

History is filled with the sound of silk slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up - Voltaire
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:28
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 694
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 779 Times in 357 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Quote:
View Post
if you're trying to say there are parallels between ms.may and trump, i won't contradict you.
ftfy

EDIT: no idea why capital letters are changed into lowercase letters. ?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18.06.2017, 12:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Gallen Kanton
Posts: 877
Groaned at 200 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,768 Times in 808 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Former Chancellor of Germany, Helmut Kohl deceased

Lol. All this moaning and whining about his economic policy, when his actions are directly responsible for Germany's economy being one of the strongest and most robust in the world today. EF never fails to bring a chuckle.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deceased Parent's Bank Account Black Jack Finance/banking/taxation 13 13.01.2015 17:19
UK Plans Arrest of former Libor UBS Traders jdeere765 Swiss politics/news 0 10.11.2012 00:51
Deceased Spouse - What to do - Advise Sought Freebooter Family matters/health 17 22.03.2009 20:50
How to cook kohl rabi telandy Food and drink 9 30.07.2008 12:24
Looking for my former Swiss teacher of English pirate General off-topic 0 11.05.2008 06:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0