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Old 24.07.2017, 13:47
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Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/busines...rants/43353818

Tom
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Old 24.07.2017, 14:03
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Apparently their paypal account was blocked and they still made it....I don't see what is so wrong with a group determined to prevent smugglers working together with so-called "NGOs" in breaking European law.
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:14
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Who is <Swiss People’s Party>>? SVP?

Could become a legal problem for them if it's true they support this group with party-money. Especially as SVP is part of the Swiss Bundesrat. Me thinks.
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:18
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Refusal to help people in danger? Encouragement to commit crimes? It's almost deliberate murder if you block an emergency service. They know the people will die.
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:25
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Not SVP, Partei National Orientierter Schweizer (Pnos).

https://www.blick.ch/news/rechtsextr...id7034669.html

Tom
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:31
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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They know the people will die.
People die in the med crossing, but I do not see a single additional death. It's nothing but a PR stunt. Honestly:

1. The med is already the most heavily surveilled ocean and Frontex would stop any larger vessel that can be tracked on radar... but smugglers these days use rafts and ribs.

2. Did you look at the vessel they chartered? It's tiny and slow. What are they gonna do with one ship like this vs the entire north african coast? Unlike the ribs of the smugglers is that thing easy to track, so both Frontex as well as the smugglers will look out for them. The smugglers will wait for a day when they are near and in the unlikely event that they don't will the authorities be nearby and make sure that some self proclaimed vigilantes will not start killing people.

3. First reports said the chartered vessel is currently stuck in the Suez canal as they failed to prepare the proper crew documents. The "activists" claimed they are sailing already. They seem to be a bunch of unprepared idiots who will either run out of money or ideas pretty soon. They remind me of that posse that took over the US national park last year. Just with added water. I bet they'll be asking for people sending them supplies by mail within a week.

I guess they will soon search for a confrontation, but I am not sure if that slow thing will be able to catch up with anyone. If it does can we see some "idiot version of a sea shepherd fight". I hope they manage to sink their ship and then get rescued in the Med by the NGOs they are trying to fight. That would be a decent life lesson.
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:33
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

The comments are interesting/amusing/alarming

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...to prevent the islamification of Switzerland
I'd suggest they should be more worried about a take over by the English language

Last edited by gbn; 24.07.2017 at 15:46.
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:38
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Ok, I looked it up for the fun of it: The ship (from 1975) has a max speed of 6.2 kts. That's about 10kmh. As a reference: The slowest and oldest scuba diving liveonboard I have ever made a trip on does about 9kts. Any modern decent boat makes 12-14.

In short: They are not exactly going to "hunt" smugglers in speed boats.

Source: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/.../vessel:C_STAR
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Old 24.07.2017, 15:55
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Currently it isn't going anywhere. The ship is under arrest in Suez.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7851341.html
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Old 24.07.2017, 16:11
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Apparently their paypal account was blocked and they still made it....I don't see what is so wrong with a group determined to prevent smugglers working together with so-called "NGOs" in breaking European law.
Could you honestly look in to the eyes of all those women and children and deny them entry to Europe?
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Old 24.07.2017, 16:21
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Could you honestly look in to the eyes of all those women and children and deny them entry to Europe?
Well, yes, actually. But I could not do so without
- rescuing them from some raft in the middle of the ocean
- giving them the right to ask for asylum if they have reasons to do so
- making sure they are safe on their way back.

A lot of lives could have for example been saved if we had taken better care of the Syrian refugees in Jordan and Turkey. They never wanted to have to take the risk of drowning in Greece or walking by foot over the entire Balkan if they had their basic needs covered in the camps they were at. The original trigger of the refugee crisis was an SMS sent by the UNHCR informing the refugees in jordan that food supply would run out within a month (due to a lack of international help).

The problem is neither the border nor the people. Very few people who have enough to eat and basic shelter would take on this sort of journey. So we need to address the basic problem, not the result. Till then will no army or militia evern be a detergent.
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Old 24.07.2017, 17:03
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Well, yes, actually. But I could not do so without
- rescuing them from some raft in the middle of the ocean
- giving them the right to ask for asylum if they have reasons to do so
- making sure they are safe on their way back.
Sounds good, but what if most of them have lost or destroyed any identifying papers?
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Old 24.07.2017, 17:32
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Sounds good, but what if most of them have lost or destroyed any identifying papers?
I don't think anybody will be waiting for them on the beach of North Africa asking to inspect their papers.
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Old 24.07.2017, 18:46
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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I don't think anybody will be waiting for them on the beach of North Africa asking to inspect their papers.
Which country do you drop them off in? Given that most wont be willing to tell you where they came from...
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Old 24.07.2017, 18:55
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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I don't think anybody will be waiting for them on the beach of North Africa asking to inspect their papers.
No, I meant it with the idea of 'granting them asylum if they have reason to do so'

If you can't identify who they are or where they are coming from then you can't really determine whether they have a genuine right to asylum or not.
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Old 24.07.2017, 19:27
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

Can't someone set up a new country (like Australia when they sent away English convicts) to ship everyone to?
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Old 24.07.2017, 19:32
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Can't someone set up a new country (like Australia when they sent away English convicts) to ship everyone to?
The Falklands can use some immigrants.

Tom
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Old 24.07.2017, 19:41
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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Can't someone set up a new country (like Australia when they sent away English convicts) to ship everyone to?
We could put them all on an island and make them fight in to the death for their freedom with the victors being granted asylum in Europe.

Or they could build processing centres in North Africa where they would be able to return unidentified migrants and determine who is genuinely seeking asylum.

Both equally outrageous and inhumane.
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Old 24.07.2017, 20:45
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

It would be funny if they were captured by pirates.
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Old 24.07.2017, 21:54
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Re: Swiss to help in the fight against illegal migration!

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No, I meant it with the idea of 'granting them asylum if they have reason to do so'

If you can't identify who they are or where they are coming from then you can't really determine whether they have a genuine right to asylum or not.
That's not how political asylum works. "I wont tell you who I am or where I am from" is not a valid reason to stay. If you want asylum is it your job to make a credible claim where you are from and why you have a right to it.

Where back to? Well, that's the problem, isn't it? During the good old days of colonel Ghaddafi could you just rock up and empty your ship in his port. You actually did not need to, as he'd make sure that there was no organized human traffickers taking advantage (and all the savings and then some) of poor souls putting their families in debt for a slim chance of a better life.

Long story short: If we don't help the Arab states of North Africa to get back some stability will this be an ongoing topic. That the EU has not been able to get their act together and pay a decent amount for a treaty that takes boat people who clearly came from their shores back... in return for money to build up the police force to stop the smugglers, set up decent camps for refugees and a program to get them back to their home countries. Once one part of the chain is efficiently blocked will the whole refugee business for the smugglers break down.
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